Western Railroad Discussion > what if the southern pacific never was bought out

OK I'm modeling the southern pacific and i was just wondering this. what if, what if the Sp was never bought by the up or the dgrw and survived the failed merger. what would the locomotives look like. hm-mm would the still be equipped with the mars and gyro warning light. and would they still be in the classic block lettering. I'm open to ideas, lets have fun with this

redneck4449 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...what if, what if the Sp was
> never bought by the up or the dgrw and survived
> the failed merger. what would the locomotives look
> like.

Cinderblocks?

qnyla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> redneck4449 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...what if, what if the Sp was
> > never bought by the up or the dgrw and survived
> > the failed merger. what would the locomotives
> look
> > like.
>
> Cinderblocks?

So pretty much how the UP units in captive mountain service in/out of N. California have looked.

im talking sd70mac sd90mac ac6000 sd70ace sd70m-2 new stuff

They had three AC6000CW's coming before the merger, just imagine those in speed lettering all sorts of dirty and grimy.

they were ordered but never delivered

Crack smokers. If anything, GEVO and ACE units, gray with very plain scarlet front and rear ends without the bloody nose streaks on the sides. (Think the current CSX scheme. Low cost, very plain.) Headlights and ditchlights only, no gyralights. (Did ANY of their last units have them? No.) The speedlettering on the long hood would probably still be there, but if not, just a plain SOUTHERN PACIFIC.

Modern corporate rail transportation. Gotta think realistically.

Yes they were #600-603, later to be reincarnated to UP 7510-7512, think they are stil on the roster.. Anyone verify they are still active?

Mike Keithly
Kimball, NE

...being a fellow SP freak, let me offer up my thoughts on what they might look like if they were still around, now twelve years later. Personally, I don't think the SP would have speed lettering if they were still around, as that was adopted after Anschutz bought SP and melded it in with Rio Grande, we're conjecturing on what it would look like if the SP had continued as pure SP. I also don't think they would have changed their paint scheme that much, one could fantasize a bit and wonder if they may have brought back the famous sunset logo on the front of their newer locos, similar to UP's bringing back the 'wings', a version of the sunset logo did appear on some of Espee's rolling stock before they disappeared. I wonder if they might have used both nose and cab mounted lighting on new GE's and EMD units, they always liked a lot of lights. I doubt the lettering on the sides would have changed that much, maybe an increase in size, but most likely still in the traditional SP font...
...too bad we never got to find out, I really miss that road a lot...

cheers,

Lorne Miller

oh...oh...oh...
Since we're dreaming...how about bringing back the Black widow paint...why not right..
The Santa Fe brought back the Warbonnet...so if you're going to dream...dream big.
Long live the Espee!

You mean the SP paint scheme isn't rust, soot, and flames coming out the top? I've never seen this scarlet & gray scheme.

Kidding. I grew up in Torrance, CA watching them go by.

Well, so much for having fun!

Colo-Rfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes they were #600-603, later to be reincarnated
> to UP 7510-7512, think they are stil on the
> roster.. Anyone verify they are still active?


The 3-unit SP AC6000 order was cancelled. They were never built, nor were they "converted" into a UP order.

UP 7510-7554 (45 units) were built in July 1998 (7510-7525) and October-December 1998 (7526-7554).

These units are being re-engined with 4400 horsepower FDL engines.

redneck4449 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK I'm modeling the southern pacific and i was
> just wondering this. what if, what if the Sp was
> never bought by the up or the dgrw and survived
> the failed merger. what would the locomotives look
> like. hm-mm would the still be equipped with the
> mars and gyro warning light. and would they still
> be in the classic block lettering. I'm open to
> ideas, lets have fun with this


Number one the seniority districts would not have been redrawn... The crew districts would not have changed so dramatically .. The morale of the workers would not be as low as whale poop...

As I answered in the Model RR TO forum:

Add on a few gensets, a huge order of ES44ACs, lotsa SD70Ms, maybe an order or two of flared SD70Ms, SD70ACes, and there you have it. The AC6000CWs would have been a failure like they have been on UP, so nothing new there. SP did have three on the order books, but the order was cancelled just prior to the UP acquisition. Hey.. don't forget continuation of GRIP remanufacturing programs for the SD45T-2, and maybe even GP40-2, GP40X, and B30-7 and DASH8-40B GRIP remanufacturing programs. Now THAT would have been cool!

With regards to paint schemes, I too wonder how everything would look if SP would have adopted the renewed "Daylight/Popsicle" paint from the TE70s of 1978, or hmm.. even the experimental daylight schemes applied to SD40R 7342 and SD44R 7399. Also, if Phil Anschutz never purchased the SP after the DRGW, I'd say speed lettering would not exist in your world except on the Grande itself. It's anyone's guess as to the fate of SP Roman lettering, but I'd say that would be gone by 2008.

Pacific Fruit Express - with some ATSF-style marketing savvy could still be going strong (LOL!), but with some of those newbie 73' reefers, and ARMN-style reefer retrofits on their aging 57' R-70-xx reefers - not to mention lots of 53' Utility Reefers sitting on top of TTRX spine cars.

On the mechanical end of things, given the expense of all the moving parts in a gyralite, I doubt that gyralites would have lasted beyond the 90s even on the SP - sad to say - even IF SP had proper management, and the corporation was not gutted by the Santa Fe after the failed SPSF merger attempt of 1986. Then again, it's YOUR railroad, and I would have loved to see ANY Dash8 or later equipped with gyralites. How cool that would have been.

Cheers,
Harry

Why worry about the financial condition of the company or how it got that way.

Just ask the Feds for a bailout and purchase all new power!

Tom Daspit
Morgan Hill, CA
Tom's Trains

SD-9s rebuilt with tier 2 prime movers, lots of SD-70M and AC4400s. Paint the same no safety cabs, nice sized plows and a much better horn

If SP was never "bought out" then PhotoBob would be posting 4 times what he is now, and
it all would not have gone completely to crap!

The Cab-forward in Sacramento would have been restored and for OCS duties and...

OK, I'm back.

/Mitch

This is a what if ! N Scale done by myself many years ago.......correct numbering IF.....

KevO

---

Tennessee Pass would still be running.
~wko