Western Railroad Discussion > 1922 Pullman Coach Slammed On Roseville Hump!

Despite special instructions not to Hump, shove to rest and not to couple to double shelf couplers, workers at the Roseville hump rolled a tank car with double shelf couplers down the hump damaging SLRG1067 yesterday. SLRG1067 is a historic 1922 Pullman built , former SP coach in route from Mt. Hood to Arizona Eastern. Transition shelf and diamond plate decking in vestibule were damaged. Car is on the rear of QRVWCB with estimated arrival around 1439 10_27_09

I returned to the UP Command Center at the Hump shortly after 1700 hours.



The gentleman who had been sitting at the hump window at lunch time was no longer there. A very heavyset younger man was sitting there and a couple of managers changing shifts and one or two other people I think I can account for from my notes. The fellow I had donuts with the evening before also appeared shortly.



I introduced myself to the manager who was about to complete his shift and told him that I was there to make sure the car was not humped and that it was indeed going on the rear with buffer cars. He mentioned the buffer cars and pointed out the hump window ....where I saw a locomotive at the top of the hump grade with two tank cars with double shelfcouplers and below it....I saw the SLRG1067 about 100 yards downhill.



I said, "You can't use those cars for buffer cars and they're not supposed to hump stuff into our car or hump our car."



The heavyset fellow who had been sitting in the hump window was obviously quite stressed and seemed to feel that I didn't appreciate his extra efforts to get a buffer car and that I was not satisified with his selection. I once again pointed out that tank cars have double shelf couplers that would damage the transition shelf on our car .

He jumped out of his seat and came into the main command room throwing his pen on the floor and shouting to the effect of: "That's it! " "I f*#kin quit!" I'm f#*kin done!" "I'm out of here"!



The manager and other's in the room tried to calm him and convince him not to quit while the locomotive and tank cars loomed out the window at the top of the hump.....apparently ready to roll a tank car into the SLRG 1067.



I said to the manager, "You'd better call that locomotive and tell them not to roll that tank car or you will destroy our car!"



He went over to the radio and called the locomotive but before they responded I saw them cut the tank car loose and it started it's roll down hill.



I ran for the window trying to drag my camera out of my pocket. When I turned it on I tried to switch it to movie mode....but it didn't come up right the first time, so I elected to just shoot the stills rather than loose the shot. I am putting together a slide show if Todd will let me post the link.

http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/Kravitz_bucket/rentatrain/SLRG%201067/?action=view&current=76b88960.pbw

After the big bang....I told everyone in the command center...."I'm going out there and I don't want to get arrested!" "How do I get out there?" The MYO I had donuts with the night before handed me earoplugs and they reluctantly followed me out there.



There were two switchmen on the ground who asked what was wrong. I showed them the placard on the car that says....DO NOT HUMP.....NO DOUBLE SHELFCOUPLERS ETC.



The diamond plate on the transition shelf was sheared off from the impact and was laying in the vestibule. It was difficult to determine how serious the other damage might be to the transition...but it took quite a hit! I unlocked the coach vestibule door and threw the broken diamond plate into the car. I was unable to lock the door and extract the key....so at this point I had to get off the car without being able to fully lock the door....as I was holding up the locomotive and crew.......



I tried not to say too much on the way back to the command center. I told them I was going to go out to my car and cool down a little before saying much more than how dissapointed I was and how I had hoped to establish better communications and working relationships with them.....and how I was going to buy pizza....but was not in the mood any more.



One of the switchmen I spoke to down in the yard said a couple of things of interest. I told him they weren't supposed to hump this car or hump other cars into it....and he replied...."How do you think you're car got down here"? Implication was they humped our coach also....The guy who was at the window who threw the tantrum and said he was going to quit....He didn't even know what a double shelfcoupler was,,,,,,,nor was he willing to tell the locomotive crew to stop.


SLRG1067 has been a subject of previous strings on Trainorders.com.

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Make sure you get pics of the damage before they deliver it to you. Hopefully you can have pics of the damage with the car coupled to it. That way when you talk to the claim agent, you have proof it was damaged on UP property.

-Joe

I hope you can make UP pay BIG TIME for the repairs. BTW, it is even listed on the paperwork as: "High Value Load", "Shove To Rest and Cover", "Do Not Hump".

There is no excuse for this stUPidity!!! More arrogance on UP's part - disregard their own instructions to "save time" in the yard and make managers look good by keeping dwell time down.


Edited to please "chuchubobnv"


Re-edited October 28th to add back what I deleted earlier (2nd paragraph) as after reading "PirateRails's" narrative my comments were appropriate after all.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/09 16:22 by Railbaron.

Good job, Roseville Hump - - NOT!
Why would you hump ANY passenger car, occupied or unoccupied? Somebody trying to get some time off? --- --- - --- JLH

How sad. Unfortunately in the movement contracts to move privately owned passenger equipment there is language to hold the railroads harmless from all damage they incure, regardless how stUPid.

If this starts happening alot Might be better to ship passenger cars on Quex? flats. The ones set up for rail car shipment.

Humping passenger cars at Roseville has been standard operating procedure by UP for years. I think the only real way to even possibly prevent it is to have someone bird-dog the car during it's entire freight move trip (of course this can take weeks) and camp out in the yard office or hump tower for days until they get around to classifying the car.

They may well have not actually humped the car per se, but the special instructions probably don't say anything about humping a car into the same track that the passenger car was just carefully placed into. This same kind of damage can happen just as easy when flat-switching a passenger car by slamming a cut of loaded cars into the passenger car. Just another day on the RR.

Normally these days, almost all RR's specify placement of passenger cars on the rear end of the train, so it is usually easier to set them off on a separate spur within the yard until the train is made up, then switch the passenger car (after 2 or 3 days of not getting around to it) onto the rear end of the train just before departure.

Good luck getting them to compensate you. We moved a dead in train locomotive via the UP, it got humped and blew the coupler out of the front of it. They refused to make the repairs or compensate us for the damage. The damage was witnessed by a UP employee, didn't help. They claimed the coupler must have been damaged prior to movement, even though the UP mechanical department really spent a lot of time inspecting the couplers before movement. All they were willing to do is install the coupler when we acquired one. It was a paid move, not a freebe.

Greetings
The railroad may be moving this car at (no cost), they do this often for museums. Also, if you make a really big stink about this
the railroad may never move a passenger car again, for anyone.

KR

Good points, In the situation I mentioned, I felt we were fully entitled having the repairs done at no cost to us, since we paid the full rate. However we got a brand new coupler for $300, and to get it installed for us was nice. I didn't try too hard to get them to do more, the last thing I wanted was to aggravate someone to the point we had to pay them to install it.

Railbaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope you can make UP pay BIG TIME for the
> repairs. BTW, it is even listed on the paperwork
> as: "High Value Load", "Shove To Rest and Cover",
> "Do Not Hump". There is no excuse for this
> stUPidity!!! More arrogance on UP's part -
> disregard their own instructions to "save time" in
> the yard and make managers look good by keeping
> dwell time down.

You make an aweful lot of assumptions here. Do you have some inside information on this particular incident? If not, your comments are completely out of line! You don't know that this happened because of some decision made by someone at any level of "management". Screw ups occur at all levels within any organization and in all organizations.

Old Bob out in Lost Wages

chuchubobnv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You make an aweful lot of assumptions here. Do you
> have some inside information on this particular
> incident? If not, your comments are completely out
> of line! You don't know that this happened because
> of some decision made by someone at any level of
> "management". Screw ups occur at all levels within
> any organization and in all organizations.
>
> Old Bob out in Lost Wages


Well, let's see. The paperwork every crew that handles this car says: "High Value Load - Shove To Rest and Cover - Do Not Hump".

The waybill says: "High Value Load - Shove To Rest and Cover - Do Not Hump"

The switch lists yard crews, yardmasters, and managers, see will say: "DNH" (Do Not Hump)

Rule 7.3 says: (Note the specific references to "passenger or outfit cars" and "high value loads")

7.3: Additional Switching Precautions
The following equipment must not be unnecessarily switched or couplings made so as to
damage the equipment or load:
● Passenger or outfit cars
● Intermodal or TOFC cars
● Cabooses
● Multi-level loads
● Cars containing livestock
● Open top loads subject to shifting

The following equipment must not be cut off in motion or struck by any car moving under its
own momentum:
● Passenger cars
● Outfit cars
● High-value loads
● Engines
● Loaded-depressed-center flat cars
● Cars loaded with modular housing units
● Articulated and solid drawbar-connected cars with more than two car bodies. However,
when empty, these cars may be kicked but not humped.
● Scale test cars.
● Roadway equipment.


System Special Intructions part 5-A says: (Note the parts about "not be kicked or humped", "not be kicked or humped against these loads", and "At terminals, these loads must be set to a special hold track designated to hold/process such loads".)

Item 5-A: Shipments of Excessive Height/Width
Special Handling Guidelines for High Wide or High Value Loads
When the train consist indicates there are High Wide or High Value Loads that require close attention in the train, the following governs:
● These loads must be inspected by a Mechanical representative at time of interchange or release from an industry
to ensure loads are properly braced and secured for safe damage-free transportation.
● These loads must not remain in a consist during switching operations.
● These loads must not be kicked or humped.
● Other cars must not be kicked or humped against these loads.
● The air brake system must be charged and used when spotting/pulling these loads.
● At terminals, these loads must be set to a special hold track designated to hold/process such loads.
● These loads must be positioned in a train in accordance with system and subdivision special instructions.


So, I guess I have to plead guilty to the part about "arrogant" and I'll edit my original post accordingly to keep you happy. However, it IS the manager's responsibility to insure these cars are handled properly. And as far as probably doing this to speed things up to avoid excess dwell time, I HAVE seen this very thing happen as it's all a numbers game. BTW, the car was NOT damaged before it left Eugene.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/09 14:50 by Railbaron.

i have heard the silver pony was damaged in 2 switching accidents, finally the UP put it on a flatcar to get it to AZ. The railroad charges a lot for PPCX moves. Doubt this was freebie, but Iowa Pacific does business with the UP so they more leverage to get this kind of move done, and resolved. Didn't BNSF offer two tiered pricing structure depending on the amount of liability they incurred? BNSF at $5 a mile plus these days?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/09 16:42 by dan.

I caught this coming through Cajon Pass today. Grabbed a few photos and 3 different videos of the train. I didn't notice any damage, maybe the photos will show some?

Dave Toussaint
Riverside, CA
SoCalRailFan.com

I have worked the hump at roseville, hump foremen have no paper work when humping cars there is a digital sign board that tells the pin puller which rail the car is going to and whether it is loaded or empty. My experience is that the car would have been shoved into the rail that it was intended to go to, this is the procedure for all high value loads, transformers etc. There are 55 bowl tracks in Roseville, once that car was in place there is no way that the pin puller is going to keep track of what car or type of car is put in the rail on top of it that could have been 25 or more pins later before a car went into that rail. If it bent the buffer plate and deck these are easily repaired with a welder and some heat. The hardest part is getting the shelf coupler unhooked from the passenger car. I seen it take an engine on both ends to get the slack.

Three shots from today.

Dave Toussaint
Riverside, CA
SoCalRailFan.com

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The attitude of most class one railroads regarding moving any passenger car is that you could not pay them enough to handle them at any rate. The rates to handle them have been increasing about 10% per year for the last ten years. The latest tariffs say that they are not liable for damage. They just do not fit in with modern railroad operations. Remote controlled yard locomotives are what cause the most damage. You could almost think that damaging each one of these cars that they move is just another way of trying to discourage this business.

This is not the first time and not the last time something like this will happen. I know of one car that was scrapped as a result of this kind of mishap and that was on Conrail in Elkhart, Indiana in the 70's.

I'm sorry you had to go through this.

Very poor management on UP's part. Sounds like they're hiring goofballs off the street to run their operation.

wharfrat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How sad. Unfortunately in the movement contracts
> to move privately owned passenger equipment there
> is language to hold the railroads harmless from
> all damage they incure, regardless how stUPid.


that kind of language is like the "I won't sue" letters you sign before surgery, or the "contracts" at parking facilities. They will protect the defendant when standard procedures, etc are followed. But if the defendant company or it's employees are negligent, then those go out the window. You can't sign away redress for negligence before the fact. An agreement to arbitrate, yes. You take the documents and evidence that the contract was to not hump and then show the slides an arbitrator is going to find for you.