Western Railroad Discussion > Thought it was a Federal Regulation.

Something very interesting I saw which proves your never too old to learn. While watching one of my recent purchases of a train video (Pentrex) in their "At The Throttle" series I was dumfounded to learn that the City of Placentia, CA has a 24 hour no noise ban which includes locomotives blowing theirn horns at grade crossings. It was always my understanding that the Federal Gov. under their regulations imposed such a requirement that requires a locomotive to sound it's horn at each grade crossing regardless if the crossing is protected with lights and/or crossing gates. Since when can a local Government (State or local) pre empt a Federal Government requirement especially when that requirement is issued in the name of safety and in actuality erodes the Fed. Gov. requirement?

I live in a small community where SEPTA runs commuter trains through my town which has six grade crossings and they run until midnight each day and then freight traffic uses the line to deliver goods to customers through the early morning hours and all of these trains are required to sound their horns at all six crossings. Are their any other areas of the country that imposes such a safety restriction on locomotives sounding their horns 24 hours a day at grade crossings?

Jim Hardman

I have not the time to go into detail, but many a city now has such rules known as Quiet Zones and more are asking each day. Been going on for about five years now.

Improvements must be made with more gates/lights and cities take over the libility of the crossing.

The Federal Railroad Administration allows communities to create 'No Horn zones' if they desire but it costs the local community money to create the enviroment where that will work...

See - http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1318

I believe the federal law allowed either allowed local law to override or at least allowed existing local laws to remain in effect (grandfathered in as they say). The FRA recently overturned that part (about three years ago) and required whistle and bell for ALL grade crossings, regardless of local laws. Many, many, many cities have/had the whistle ban in effect, the largest I know of was the entire city of Chicago. The FRA did leave an out for local communities. The could keep there local railroads silent if AND ONLY if they installed "closed rail corridors", basically four quadrant gates, anti-salom medians, and even stationery (but quieter) whistles. These improvements, which also sometimes included crossing closures (the idea was close 1 or 2 crossings and upgrade the rest) would create "quiet zones" where trains only whistle for emergency conditions. All of the previous and current "quiet zones" allow for whistle to be used to save lives (i.e. person on tracks, car stopped on crossing) and many required the bell to be rung continuously.

There are two of the zones in the Puget Sound area and soon there will be three if it has not already been enacted. The Ferry Landing at Steilacoom, the entrance to Sunnyside Beach in Steilacoom and the Macarver Street crossing in Tacoma. I have heard the "faux" horn when the crossing gates descend and the horn beeps away the whole time the train is passing. While it is not quite as loud as the train whistle, it is still pretty annoying since it keeps up all the while the train is passing. I am not sure if this is the last word in noise reduction, but it is a start.

Puyallup is probably going to be next but it may be problematic as the trains pass downtown at 79 miles-an-hour. Probably will see some sort of gate system that cannot be passed.

Curious then,

What would the indication be for a quiet zone grade crossing? No X or W sign or is there a designated sign? I wouldn't imaging engineers would be required to memorize them, would they?

Would a quiet zone also imply (I didn't read the rules in details, my bad) the engineer couldn't sound the horn even if somebody was in eminent danger from their train?

I found this picture, but that is the road sign.

David Locher
Fresno, CA
http://www.youtube.com/learnwithgern

---

Go the FRA homepage at www.fra.dot.gov scroll down about 2/3 of the way. Click on Train Horn Rule. Everything you want to know about horn sounding requirements and quiet zones is there.

NIMBYism at it's best. Cities will drop this BS after a few of them pay out some big money, after a train or two hit a few people or cars. The horns will be back when they lose some multi million dollar lawsuits. They will re-discover the reason why the Railroad blows that horn, and rings that bell, because some people don't have the brains to blow their nose, let alone know a train is coming.

Ya, I can see the scene in the court house now: 'Members of the Jury, We will show that the City of Numbskull did, through willfully, and negligently, passing an ordinance banning the use of train safety devices, cause My client to be struck by a train, as He walk along the tracks. Yes, had the Train been able to blow it's horn, or ring it's bell, My client, there in that wheelchair, would not be here today.'

Your tax dollars at work...

Greg

Lobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NIMBYism at it's best. Cities will drop this BS
> after a few of them pay out some big money, after
> a train or two hit a few people or cars. The horns
> will be back when they lose some multi million
> dollar lawsuits. They will re-discover the reason
> why the Railroad blows that horn, and rings that
> bell, because some people don't have the brains to
> blow their nose, let alone know a train is
> coming.
>
> Ya, I can see the scene in the court house now:
> 'Members of the Jury, We will show that the City
> of Numbskull did, through willfully, and
> negligently, passing an ordinance banning the use
> of train safety devices, cause My client to be
> struck by a train, as He walk along the tracks.
> Yes, had the Train been able to blow it's horn, or
> ring it's bell, My client, there in that
> wheelchair, would not be here today.'
>
> Your tax dollars at work...
>
> Greg


Maybe, but some of the quiet zones have been there for a while.

NJ passed an enabling ordinance for towns that have whistle laws to severely limit litigation damage claims if signs are in place. As noted up thread, the train may blow its horn if people or equipment are in the track area.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/10 08:12 by Lackawanna484.

I few years ago there were posts on Trainorders which described grade crossings where rather than the horns on the locomotives sounding, there were horns on the crossing signals which sounded as trains approached, the idea being that the horns on the crossing signals were aimed directly at on coming traffic, were actually heard better by drivers and pedestrians than locomotive mounted horns could be heard, but operated at a lower decibel level and were less "intrusive" to neighborhoods.
Has this system been implemented anywhere and is there any data to show that it is more or less effective than traditional horn use?

I don't know about California, but here in Minnesota "Exempt" means something else and may or may not be used in conjunction with "No Train Horn". Here, Exempt means that the road crossing has the right of way instead of the railroad, and is only used on little used or out of service track. The train crew must flag their way accross.

dlocher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curious then,
>
> What would the indication be for a quiet zone
> grade crossing? No X or W sign or is there a
> designated sign? I wouldn't imaging engineers
> would be required to memorize them, would they?
>
> Would a quiet zone also imply (I didn't read the
> rules in details, my bad) the engineer couldn't
> sound the horn even if somebody was in eminent
> danger from their train?
>
> I found this picture, but that is the road sign.

In Sugar Land, Tx all of their crossings has the wayside horn attached to the crossing gate. The horn blows 2 long 1 short and 1 long until the train enters the crossing. It is loud enough for you to here at the crossing but not in the neighborhood. They also have flashing red X on a tall pole facing the train to let the crew know not to blow the horn at that crossing. If the X is not flashing then the engineer must blow their horn for that crossing.

a737flyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are two of the zones in the Puget Sound area
> and soon there will be three if it has not already
> been enacted. The Ferry Landing at Steilacoom,
> the entrance to Sunnyside Beach in Steilacoom and
> the Macarver Street crossing in Tacoma. I have
> heard the "faux" horn when the crossing gates
> descend and the horn beeps away the whole time the
> train is passing. While it is not quite as loud
> as the train whistle, it is still pretty annoying
> since it keeps up all the while the train is
> passing. I am not sure if this is the last word
> in noise reduction, but it is a start.
>
> Puyallup is probably going to be next but it may
> be problematic as the trains pass downtown at 79
> miles-an-hour. Probably will see some sort of
> gate system that cannot be passed.


The faux horn at McCarver St. in Tacoma is designed to play until the train occupies the crossing, must have had a defect. You also forgot to mention the one at North Portal in Seattle. It is an old school quiet zone, with no upgrades to the crossings, but speed is fairly slow through there.

In California there has always been an "Exempt" crossing status for seldom-used spurs that the trains have to stop and flag across under the direction of a crewman on the ground. This exemption if for the requirement tht buses, tanker trucks, and others to stop at the crossing before crossing.

The FRA use requires the locomotive engineer to sound the horn for any situation where there is a safety risk such as trespassers, pedestrians crossing while the crossing is activated, and specifically if there are roadway workers on the right of way. (And to help the engineers, roadway workers always have those high visiblity safety vests.)

Burr Ridge IL has one.Burr Ridge is a affluant suburab west of willow springs on the BNSF transcon.It is on madison st,which is just east of RT 83 and bluff rd. I've been by there when trains go by. Up close its as loud as a train horn,but in the distance the horn like sound cant be heard. just my opinion.

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In California there has always been an "Exempt"
> crossing status for seldom-used spurs that the
> trains have to stop and flag across under the
> direction of a crewman on the ground. This
> exemption if for the requirement tht buses, tanker
> trucks, and others to stop at the crossing before
> crossing.
>
> The FRA use requires the locomotive engineer to
> sound the horn for any situation where there is a
> safety risk such as trespassers, pedestrians
> crossing while the crossing is activated, and
> specifically if there are roadway workers on the
> right of way. (And to help the engineers, roadway
> workers always have those high visiblity safety
> vests.)


NJ has a similar statute for EXEMPT crossings. But, it's a pain in the butt to qualify for it.

You have to document the vehicle crossing counts over a period of several weeks, noting school buses, commercial buses, haz-mat, etc. Then you have to get the town and its police and fire agencies to agree. And, you file a request with the state, which may send its own inspector, or not.

There is an exception for blowing in quiet zones. If some one runs a gate or is on the tracks, passing a Metra at a passenger stop, etc. etc.... Another words, use your head. They can't fine you for being safe.

The Iron Horse

dlocher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curious then,
>
> What would the indication be for a quiet zone
> grade crossing? No X or W sign or is there a
> designated sign?

Quiet Zones are indicated by a "QZ" placard attached just below the whistle sign, at least in the areas I have seen here around Fort Worth where Quiet Zones have been established.

Quiet zones are also noted in the employee timetables. According to the rules, engineers are expected to sound their horn when other trains are in the area, when crews are working on the tracks, or in any emergency situation, regardless of the presence of quiet zone regulations.

BNSF installed new QZ signs over new W signs on the BNSG Chicago Sub last year. See photo in this thread I posed back then: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1873224,1873224#1873224