Western Railroad Discussion > BNSF Management Trainee Position

I am looking for some information on the BNSF Management Trainee position for transportation. Some questions:

-Anyone on T.O. go through this program?

-Can anyone reflect on positive/negative aspects of the program?

-What is the salary for salary band 26?

Any information would be appreciated.

I know you are serious, but you are really opening yourself up for barbs from rails.

Nudge

I wouldn't recommnend being a management trainee (i.e. corporate lackey) in Transportation/Operating Dept. Take my word from it, all the union employees will shun you and rarely speak you, the higher ups will always be on your back and place unreasonable demands upon you to meet. If not, you can/will be fired! You are a "at will" employee
in management. Maybe go into Marketing or some other Dept. You will be EXPECTED to move every 2-5 years WHEREEVER
they tell you too or you will not ever be promoted and may not even hold a job at all. I would suggest hiring out in a union craft first then transferring into a management job if you really want it. This way you can go back to your old union job if you don't cut it or like it at all. Or just forget management altogether and save yourself alot of BS!

Its all up to you. Being from the union side, here are some observations. You are salary so no overtime. Most work 50-60hrs a week. Seems that they never work "regular hours." They get paid less than the rest of us. You have to be a 100% company person. Many are told to bend facts in investigations. If you are looking for management positions, look somewhere else. Its not a good job! I have seen these people crawling over eachother to get to a higher position that doesn't exist. They will crush anything in there way (YOU). Politics is the only way to advance. You'd better like ft worth if you want to advance. Prepare for a tough fight.

Pinlifter Wrote:
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> Its all up to you. Being from the union side,
> here are some observations. You are salary so no
> overtime. Most work 50-60hrs a week. Seems that
> they never work "regular hours." They get paid
> less than the rest of us. You have to be a 100%
> company person. Many are told to bend facts in
> investigations. If you are looking for management
> positions, look somewhere else. Its not a good
> job! I have seen these people crawling over
> eachother to get to a higher position that doesn't
> exist. They will crush anything in there way
> (YOU). Politics is the only way to advance. You'd
> better like ft worth if you want to advance.
> Prepare for a tough fight.
>

Give it a try. Don't listen to these guys. The program requires a 4-yr degree, 3.0+ GPA and a CLEAN record. It is easy to diss a job for which a person is not qualified.

There will be some politics, moving around, typical RR schedule. A lot of jobs end up in FTW but many are all over the BNSF system.

If you go for it, let us know how you do. Bob

-spnudge,

Yea, I am expecting those type of responses. The information provided thus far is just what I figured I would hear, and makes me think about other fields of employment, or like one of the other posters said, somewhere in marketing or an area less stressful...

I don't have an axe to grind here.

In 1982 I was writing my MBA thesis at the University of North Dakota. Both the Soo and the BN were ver helpful in supplying information regarding branch lines. loadings, maintenance expenses, etc.

When I completed the paper I send courtesy copies to my contacts at the BN & Soo; they were strictly courtesy copies, I wasn't fishing for a job. The BN guy asked that I drop by the next time I was in the Twin Cities. I did so a couple of months later. We had lunch and he made me an offder on the spot, as an economist, for the BN. I was floored.

I did not accept as I had had enough of the northern tier snow, but I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I had said yes.

Great questions, I'm in the program right now actually. Just started July 11. I had the blessings to have come into it with two previous internships with BNSF and a co-op at NS. Both internships with BNSF were in the transportation dept and the NS one was in the marketing dept. I chose the transportation program at BNSF because I just felt more "at home" at BNSF and because I felt totally disconnected from the railroad in the marketing department.

Personally, I couldn't be happier with my choice. So far the program has been a blast and can't think of anything to complain about so far. Just last week was the big "transcon trip" where each transportation management trainee rides in the cab of a train from Kansas City to LA. It was a blast and a great way to see the railroad. Nearly all of the crew members were very accepting of my presence and were glad for me to be there. Also, I may be biased about this, but I feel like the transportation trainees get the best treatment too.

It takes a year to go through the entire trainee program, and when you finish you'll be a trainmaster. Yes, you will be working 60 hrs. per week, but you'll be making a lot more than most of your buddies that graduated college with you. I don't feel particularly comfortable disclosing company salary band info, but I will say that it's "competitive" with what NS offers for the same program.

I'm honestly not sure how the promotion process works, but given the attrition rate of employees over the next few years, it's a great time to be getting into the railroad. Yes, if you stay in the transportation department, you will be moving around quite a bit. They're also starting to look really hard at the work-life balance, since in transportation you really won't have much of one once you get past the terminal trainmaster position.

Also, if you've got a girlfriend or are married, make darn sure that they know what kind of hours you'll be working in transportation. It really is 24/7/365, and when you're just starting off, I wouldn't expect to get ANY holidays off. Also remember that past a terminal trainmaster position, I'm pretty sure you're on call 24/7.

Now, there is some hidden good news in here. BNSF is very big on cross departmental training. So if you become a trainmaster and hate it with a passion, you can get out of it. They may or may not want you to go back into it at some point, so keep that in mind too. If you've got any other questions, feel free to email me at: bsharpe@utk.edu

See your TO mailbox.

I can't speak directly to BNSF's program.

Having said that, if you're seriously interested in trying it, then by all means, go for it!

If, after a year or two, you find you just can't stand it, you should be able to find employment with another railroad (shortline, regional, commuter authority) or with a supplier. Probably should stay away from Amtrak, however, given the uncertainties.

Rail1 Wrote:
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> I wouldn't recommnend being a management trainee
> (i.e. corporate lackey) in
> Transportation/Operating Dept. Take my word from
> it, all the union employees will shun you and
> rarely speak you, the higher ups will always be on
> your back and place unreasonable demands upon you
> to meet. If not, you can/will be fired! You are
> a "at will" employee
> in management. Maybe go into Marketing or some
> other Dept. You will be EXPECTED to move every
> 2-5 years WHEREEVER
> they tell you too or you will not ever be promoted
> and may not even hold a job at all. I would
> suggest hiring out in a union craft first then
> transferring into a management job if you really
> want it. This way you can go back to your old
> union job if you don't cut it or like it at all.
> Or just forget management altogether and save
> yourself alot of BS!

No barbs from me, here. If this is what you want to do, GO for it. However, I second the notion about getting craft seniority FIRST. I'm pretty sure (but not certain since I don't work for BNSF) that you can still get into a management trainee program even if you start first as a switchman/brakeman/conductor. Would also recommend getting proficient at that, then, taking promotion to engineer. This would (1) give you an "insurance policy" if, as indicated above, you don't like it, (2) truly would gain you some more respect from those you end up supervising, and, (3) if you get trained as an engineer as well as conductor, would give you additional perspective AND open up certain jobs that only engineer-certified managers can hold. UPRR's Dick Davidson, love him or hate him, is listed on a conductor's seniority roster, and actually did the work of the men he later supervised in his early years as a field manager...it certainly didn't hurt him that he had craft seniority.

You do not appear to have gotten any barbs, but, some varying opinions. All that I have seen have contained grains of truth.

The most common point being made here is the part about the hours. Let me say this: the 50-60 hours a week part is the BEST CASE scenario, particularly if you go into operations (and, spending a large amount of time in operations is ESSENTIAL if you want to become one of the "big boys"). The area of marketing would probably require a little less time in a week, less time being called out in the middle of the night, but, would limit your upward mobility unless you got in some time in the field. But, if you're good at marketing, that might be the niche for you. I suspect that that particular area is particularly competitive, though, even for an entry-level postion.

The fellow that mentioned that if you go into operations and have a TE&Y background and having more respect from those you supervise is right on the mark. However, there are rare examples of those with zero craft seniority who earn respect due to their leadership skills, just as there are those who DO have seniority that still end up getting no respect. The odds are better that you'll be taken seriously if you can tell those you supervise that you've been in their shoes.

My opinion: if you're really serious, try to get a job in the TE&Y ranks, and find out what railroading is REALLY all about. Long hours will be required there, too, but, you will have some degree of more control over your life. You will not have to be in the ICU unit of a hospital room, for example, to take a day or two off when you really need it. You will also find that there is GREAT variety in the types of jobs you can hold, and a lot of this will depend on GEOGRAPHY, i.e., where your seniority is, as much as how HIGH your seniority is. Some places, with low-mileage runs, you will work every day...yes...EVERY SINGLE DAY, maybe twice a day, and the only time you get off will be the days you mark off (which everybody does and the RR even accomodates, within reason...marking off every now and then when you're on a run that works 7 days a week does NOT an "absenteeism case" make). On other runs, the mileage of the run will be such that you might make a round trip, and be off 36 to 48 hours after every trip (although such runs generally require some "whiskers"...seniority).

The railroad is like the military in more ways than I can count (having done both). One of the similarities is the manner in which "officers" are selected/recruited. Some start out enlisted, and go through Officer Candidate School. Some come straight out of college, and go through Officer Candidate School. Some are products of the college ROTC program. And yet others go to West Point Military Academy (in the case of the U.S. Army)...each branch of the armed services has its own service academy. Those have an edge with regards to upward mobility...and yet...look at Colin Powell. He became the highest-ranking general officer in the USA (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 4-star general, and, was seriously considered by Bill Clinton to be granted the first 5-star ranking since the guys from WWII...though this was primarily a stratagem during a period when Clinton though Powell might run against him in 1996). Bottom line: there is, and SHOULD BE, more than one way to skin a cat, or, to become a railroad manager.

I've been thru the program...e-mail me an I'll fill you in.

da' freak

I think the part about lying in investigations is what I would object to the most. Hopefully, you will not work for divisional officers who expect you to do so. i do think having some craft experience is invaluable as well.

Its unfortunate. I have seen many great new trainees leave after just a few months. They get tired of all the work, low pay, and how management treats the "rest of us." (sorry for such a negative post before, I was tired). First off, from what I've been told BNSF has a great management trainee program. In the next 5 years the railroad will undergo a massive regime change. People at all levels of the railroad will be retiring. So your chance to advance will be really good. If you know the worst of it, then you won't be surprised.

When I asked whats it like to work for the railroad, I got mostly negative responses. But I wanted to know why most these guys had been around for 30 years +. They said the pay was good, the benefits are great and the job hasn't been exported to china! I made a choice and I am glad I did. Make yours and see where BNSF can take you. Just don't forget the little guys when you become president ;-)

fmw Wrote:
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> I think the part about lying in investigations is
> what I would object to the most. Hopefully, you
> will not work for divisional officers who expect
> you to do so. i do think having some craft
> experience is invaluable as well.

I have thankfully not been exposed to outright lying in investigations (lucky me...I've never been the subject of one!!! LOL!). It is unfortunate that anyone has been exposed to lying in investigations. Being a product of the U.S. Army, my code of honor tells me that any officer caught lying in an investigation should be given a "dishonorable discharge". But...kind of hard to do, since the hearing officer and the Supe that sits as judge and jury hold all the cards.

Interesting discussion here.

Fireboy, you've come to the right place to get some good varying opinions from railroaders from several different railroads. I'm glad for you that you appear to have made contact with some graduates of the BNSF management training program...that's hitting a gold mine, there.

Good luck to you, buddy. And, I think that you've gotten some very level-headed, balanced, and truthful responses from a variety of railroaders. TE&Y folks do tend to badmouth managers, but there has been zero "flaming" on this post. And I can assure you...any railroader on here who is a switchman/brakeman/conductor/engineer...any of them would WELCOME a talented field manager with INTEGRITY, who can contribute to safer operations, who can help us ALL (from the employees to the stockholders) make more money in a HEALTHY industry, who can keep the mainline clear and the yards fluid. Even the rails who bash "management" desperately desire GOOD managers. And, they are as contemptous of a manager, even a nice one, who doesn't know what he is doing and who continually makes stupid, money-wasting decisions, as they are of the villianous, dishonest, egomaniacal types.

Believe it or not...you do have to be "smart" ("wise" would be an even greater asset) to be an EFFECTIVE field manager. The railroad does NOT run itself. Believe me that it does not. It takes careful planning, level-headedness under stress, experience, and dedication to do the above: maintain a TRUE safety culture, maintain fluidity in the yards and out on the mains, and, keep morale up.

You will always here bashing of managers. But, you will always here one rail (and he may be the most virulent anti-management type you can think of...a true "militant") who, if you sit down and talk to him or her, say "There was a manager, Joe Blow, that was an honest, fair man, and I'd have done ANYTHING in my power to help him out, and I truly miss him". There have been instances of crews working voluntarily a little over the hours of service for such people to get them and the operation out of a jam. Believe you me...they won't do it for just anybody!!!

Everybody has spoken some truth on here. One thing that I would like to point out is again, about establishing craft seniority first. By doing this, you will begin to learn what railroad operations are really about and that a situation "on paper" is usually a far cry to the way it actually is. I like many of the ATM's I work with (I'm TY&E, specifically the "E") because they worked the ground first and they know what's going on. They can visualize the moves but when some "kid" right out of collge finds a home in the office, he/she doesn't understand that a simple move can take some time even though "on paper" it doesn't look that way. It makes it difficult for everybody to be on the same page. Have an open mind and listen to suggestions from the train crews (or whoever you're dealing with) because they know what they're doing. Other than that, good luck to you and welcome aboard the BNSF if you decide to go for it!