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Western Railroad Discussion > BNSF SD9 renumbering???


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Date: 09/21/06 07:53
BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: PumpkinHogger

The new GEVOS have crossed in to the 6100s, so the SD9 number series has been encroached upon. Very few of these are still in service, yet some accomadation for the ones that remain must be made. Anyone know of where they are headed number-wise? Can't find out through my sources....

PH



Date: 09/21/06 07:58
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: checkmate007




Date: 09/21/06 08:11
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: PumpkinHogger

Ah so, just had to know where to look. Six done so far: 1710 1714 1721 1733 1740 1743

Seen a few of the new SD70s in the 9300's arriving, some in primer and very incomplete, without some cab interior pieces, mu hoses, plows, ICE screens and carbody not even in primer, just whatever the vendor that made the hoods slapped on; some in paint but not decalled. Strange...EMD must be hurting for floor space to rush 'em out like that. Know GE is running full blast, but EMD? Heard BNSF is now going all-GE but only buying EMDs cuz GE is swamped, the GE production line is full two years out. Not good for EMD.

PH



Date: 09/21/06 08:20
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: bnsfjth

PumpkinHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heard BNSF is now going all-GE but only buying
> EMDs cuz GE is swamped, the GE production line is
> full two years out. Not good for EMD.

Boy, that just doesn't seem like smart move on BNSF's part. What happens if the GE longevity problems surface on the Dash 9 and GEVO's as they have in many other models? Suddenly, they are forced with a decision to carry out expensive rebuilding programs on the fleets or costly retirements. The other class ones have this covered by having their fleets spread between the two manufacturers. BNSF chooses not to exercise that option for the most part.

-Justin



Date: 09/21/06 08:39
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: PumpkinHogger

bnsfjth Wrote:
> Boy, that just doesn't seem like smart move on
> BNSF's part. What happens if the GE longevity
> problems surface on the Dash 9 and GEVO's as they
> have in many other models? Suddenly, they are
> forced with a decision to carry out expensive
> rebuilding programs on the fleets or costly
> retirements.

All GE's and I imagine EMDs too are covered by extensive warranty programs that indeminify the owning RR's from any such issues. The reliability of the GE's just keeps going up-up-up, and that is in large part due to the close working reatlionship that power-by-the-hour requirements have enticed them to do, the more they are available the more they earn.

GE leases a large part of the Argentine DSF where they do work on their power so they therefore have firsthand experience as to what needs attending to and keep current with real world issues. EMD does the same at their own shops around the system.

GE took the Japanese approach some years ago of beating the competition at the own game by making the best product they can, and have done a spectacular job of it.

The Santa Fe was only buying EMDs at the end to keep some competition alive, only token EMD orders were placed in their last few years of life. A Santa Fe mechanical man once told me the only reason they bought those last orders of SD70/75s EMDs was "to keep GE guessing".



Date: 09/21/06 08:42
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: midwest

PumpkinHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah so, just had to know where to look. Six done so
> far: 1710 1714 1721 1733 1740 1743
>
> Seen a few of the new SD70s in the 9300's
> arriving, some in primer and very incomplete,
> without some cab interior pieces, mu hoses, plows,
> ICE screens and carbody not even in primer, just
> whatever the vendor that made the hoods slapped
> on; some in paint but not decalled. Strange...EMD
> must be hurting for floor space to rush 'em out
> like that.

Not floor space, rather room in the paint booth after construction. EMD can build units faster than their paint booth can paint them, so they contract out painting and final test when business is booming to keep their production up.


> Know GE is running full blast, but EMD?

Equally swamped. BNSF asked in early 2006 for a fall order of units (in addition to the 40 being delivered), but EMD had no production space for additional units.


> Heard BNSF is now going all-GE but only buying
> EMDs cuz GE is swamped, the GE production line is
> full two years out. Not good for EMD.

Totally false.


Midwest...Out



Date: 09/21/06 09:07
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: FECSD40-2

I believe, like others that have written on Trainorders before, that BNSF stopped ordering EMD locos because of the loss of the GM auto hauling contract to UP. Almost as soon as EMD was sold to Greenbriar, BNSF ordered the SD70ACe. I also believe that it is not smart to rely on only one builder, there must be at least two builders represented on a large railroad's roster. Even KCS, the smallest Class One, is ordering from both builders. I wish that CP would order some SD70ACe locos, they would look awesome in that all red scheme. I hope when they are ordered, that they would have both the headlights and numberboards on the nose, like the Australian BHP SD70ACe's. I believe CSX should also order more, or maybe SD70M-2's if they are sticking to all DC orders for the time being. Only a smaller road, like FEC, MRL, or Indiana Railroad (if their long rumored order of new locos ever happens), can afford to order from only one builder.



Date: 09/21/06 09:19
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: ddg

How much longer before they start importing from from Japan, China or Korea? Hey they build the container ships over there.



Date: 09/21/06 10:11
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: PumpkinHogger

midwest Wrote:
>

>
> > Heard BNSF is now going all-GE but only buying
> > EMDs cuz GE is swamped, the GE production line
> is
> > full two years out. Not good for EMD.
>
> Totally false.

Well noooo, totally true actually. Ain't getting in a pissing match. Can't divulge my source. Token EMD orders from BNSF will continue.

PH



Date: 09/21/06 11:02
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: WichitaJct

It seems to me it's in the interest of all the major RRs to have two manufacturers of locomotives. Each manufacturer, in a sense, keeps the other one honest. If there was just one, they charge what they want, have less pressure to be innovative and improve quality. I think BNSF would come to regret their "all GE" policy if EMD folded.



Date: 09/21/06 11:23
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: GP40X

Has EMD been reduced to token status?



Date: 09/21/06 12:15
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: fbe

GP40X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has EMD been reduced to token status?



Yes, for some time now. It happens when your parent company loses focus on what your business unit does and the starts shopping the unit as a sell off to any interested party. Bad for morale within the ranks which is reflected in quality control, bad for sales to customers who wonder how long support will be available for their multimillion dollar purchases and bad for product development when engineeriung budgets are slashed and no longer keep up within the industry. I also does not help when your #1 competitor finds that focus with a vengence.



Date: 09/21/06 13:47
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: xsphogger

Remember when GE was considered "brand X". My have times changed.



Date: 09/21/06 19:35
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: Anonymous User

Everybody's an expert....

(In reality, no one knows)



Date: 09/21/06 20:21
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: SD45X

FEC cabs were on the ground at Boise last week of August when I was given a tour. EMD using MPI to sub contract work out, to meet quota, just like the painting.



Date: 09/21/06 22:07
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: fbe

BNSF9647 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everybody's an expert....
>
> (In reality, no one knows)

Is this something you want to discuss with someone specific on this thread or what?



Date: 09/22/06 08:51
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: midwest

PumpkinHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> midwest Wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > > Heard BNSF is now going all-GE but only
> buying
> > > EMDs cuz GE is swamped, the GE production
> line
> > is
> > > full two years out. Not good for EMD.
> >
> > Totally false.
>
> Well noooo, totally true actually. Ain't getting
> in a pissing match. Can't divulge my source. Token
> EMD orders from BNSF will continue.
>
> PH


PH,

Please post the quantity of EMDs for 2007 and 2008 (when you can). I doubt the figure for each year will qualify as a 'token order'.

Midwest



Date: 09/22/06 15:10
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: handsignals

>
>
> PH,
>
> Please post the quantity of EMDs for 2007 and 2008
> (when you can). I doubt the figure for each year
> will qualify as a 'token order'.
>
> Midwest


My curiosity is piqued. Midwest, do you have those numbers? Is BNSF actually going to buy more EMDs? I am hoping yes, but I have no clue. I thought that this last BNSF EMD order was just a "we need power NOW" knee jerk order because GE was so swamped.



Date: 09/22/06 15:16
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: PumpkinHogger

handsignals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I thought that this last BNSF EMD order was just a
> "we need power NOW" knee jerk order because GE was
> so swamped.

You are correct sir, BNSF has committed to purchasing GE AC power for coal.

When GE can provide that is....



Date: 09/22/06 15:19
Re: BNSF SD9 renumbering???
Author: handsignals

PumpkinHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> handsignals Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > I thought that this last BNSF EMD order was just
> a
> > "we need power NOW" knee jerk order because GE
> was
> > so swamped.
>
> You are correct sir, BNSF has committed to
> purchasing GE AC power for coal.
>
> When GE can provide that is....


Bummer.



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