Western Railroad Discussion > San Francisco's Cargo Way Xing Diamonds

The construction of San Francisco Municipal Railway's new T-Third St. line has resulted in the creation of two new light rail/common carrier railroad diamond crossings. 3rd and Carroll holds the UP industrial lead out to Hunters Point and 3rd and Cargo Way provides UP with access to the Port of San Francisco's Pier 96 area.

The two scenes below were shot about 20 minutes apart and show UP's South City Switcher making a switching move westbound at the Cargo Way location across 3rd and the light rail line with a southbound Muni T-line operator familiarization run then coming along. UP makes its appearance in the noon hour most weekdays--shots with two trains will be a challenge. We may have to start a database of just how many light rail/freight r.r. diamonds there are nationwide.

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--UP's YSF-70 South City Switcher crosses busy 3rd St. and Muni's T-line where every move causes some pretty serious traffic backups. The brick structure is SFFD's historic station 25 and is still active.

--UP's moves across 3rd are protected by very basic red/green only approach lit signals synchronized to the traffic signals. Usually flickers to green shortly after the mandatory 20 second wait.

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Good schtuff Bob. It is raning cats and dogs now here in the Bay Area so nice that you got some sun this morning.

Cool, the Wobbly WP still lives in the City! The freshly repainted UP 9989 is the former WP 3555 (nee-UP 910)...

What is the difference/need for the red T and red X on the signal mast for the light rail?

What is the difference/need for the red T and red X on the signal mast for the light rail?

I assume there is a cross street running from Left to Right which isn't in the picture?
I see a no left or U-turn indication on the vehicle's overhead mast?
It looks like this road is between the photographer and the light rail signal in question?


Since the light rail crosses BOTH a street and also a Railroad track,

I will speculate: red T would indicate it is NOT clear to cross the 'T'rain Track
red X would indicate it is NOT clear to cross the street 'X'ing

(The other signals are unlit - so are probably also T and X but in "another" color)

The "other" color is usually white (on most systems I've seen) and indicates to the
light rail when it is safe to proceed. These signals are usually interlocked
with the street signals & crossing lights/gates
(and also in this case the UP's signals) to avoid conflicts.

Since the automobile traffic would be [even more] "confused" with additional
Red/Green "lights" street running "light rail" usually uses white signals.
This is the first time I've seen T and X - but it's kind of clever/intuitive.
(If my "guess" is right anyway)

In Orlando, FL our buses in "downtown" have dedicated bus lanes with
white - (stop) and white | (proceed) for the bus to cross vehicle lanes.

There have been a variety of other posts with various light rail lines
having other variations on this theme.

VERY Interesting setup - thanks for sharing this picture.

BTW: Tampa FL's Ybor light rail also crosses CSX's line within sight of the Tampa
Amtrak station. Because there is no vehicle traffic to be [even more] confused,
both CSX and the light rail use standard signals with standard Red/Green indications.

Steve
Winter Park, FL

Nice shots! Need to take a trip up there some time with the camera.

There is 1 RR/Light Rail crossing in Santa Clara County. A connector off the ex-SP Vasona line crossing the VTA Winchester light rail and joins up with an ex-WP spur near downtown San Jose.

Also, there is an interchange track in Mountain View along Central Expy. where the CalTrain line connects with the VTA. The wire is raised from here to Moffet Field to allow high cube cars to reach a spur off the VTA into the base. The spur branches off right under Highway 101. Two lengths of rail are unspiked on the connector at the CalTrain line. I don't think the line has ever been used by regular heavy rail traffic.

Z

shed47 Wrote:
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> The construction of San Francisco Municipal
> Railway's new T-Third St. line has resulted in the
> creation of two new light rail/common carrier
> railroad diamond crossings. 3rd and Carroll holds
> the UP industrial lead out to Hunters Point and
> 3rd and Cargo Way provides UP with access to the
> Port of San Francisco's Pier 96 area.
>
> The two scenes below were shot about 20 minutes
> apart and show UP's South City Switcher making a
> switching move westbound at the Cargo Way location
> across 3rd and the light rail line with a
> southbound Muni T-line operator familiarization
> run then coming along. UP makes its appearance in
> the noon hour most weekdays--shots with two trains
> will be a challenge. We may have to start a
> database of just how many light rail/freight r.r.
> diamonds there are nationwide.

do think a doublestack or a plate C boxcar will clear those light rail overhead power lines? the geeps are 15ft. tall, so it looks offer close. i know no d/stacks run on that line, just wondering about the powerline height.

FallinFlag Wrote:
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> do think a doublestack or a plate C boxcar will
> clear those light rail overhead power lines? the
> geeps are 15ft. tall, so it looks offer close. i
> know no d/stacks run on that line, just wondering
> about the powerline height.

May be hard to make out in the photo, but the sign on the cantilever signal down at 3rd and Carroll indicates a 19' vertical clearance. I'm guessing it would be the same at Cargo Way. Any operation of doublestacks to Piers 80 or 96 would have to start with an enlargement of Caltrain tunnels 3 and 4, anyway.

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shed47 Wrote:

> The two scenes below were shot about 20 minutes
> apart and show UP's South City Switcher making a
> switching move westbound at the Cargo Way location
> across 3rd and the light rail line with a
> southbound Muni T-line operator familiarization
> run then coming along. UP makes its appearance in
> the noon hour most weekdays--shots with two trains
> will be a challenge.

It's a little easier down at Carroll St., where the customer is just a block from 3rd. Here's 1058 and 9989 on Carroll last Tuesday with a MUNI train rolling down 3rd.

Did the South City Switcher have any dirty dirt traffic when you shot it, or just Darling Delaware? Tuesday they just worked Granite Rock, Sierra Point Lumber at Bayshore, chickens at Carroll St., and a reefer off the house track at SSF.

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espeeboy Wrote:

> Cool, the Wobbly WP still lives in the City! The
> freshly repainted UP 9989 is the former WP 3555
> (nee-UP 910)...

Yeah, South City presently hosts two engines with similar scars from missing gyralights: ex-WP 3555 and ex-D&RGW 3123.

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If I remember correctly, at Darby, PA, CSX's (ex-B&O) busy Philadelphia-Washington line crosses a streetcar line (SEPTA?).

mapboy

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
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> It's a little easier down at Carroll St., where
> the customer is just a block from 3rd. Here's
> 1058 and 9989 on Carroll last Tuesday with a MUNI
> train rolling down 3rd.
>
> Did the South City Switcher have any dirty dirt
> traffic when you shot it, or just Darling
> Delaware? Tuesday they just worked Granite Rock,
> Sierra Point Lumber at Bayshore, chickens at
> Carroll St., and a reefer off the house track at
> SSF.

You're correct, Evan, the Carroll crossing is a little more agreeable to catching both operator's in one frame, as I was able to do back in July.

Today's job returned to SSF with three tank loads from Darling Int'l., four dirt loads, and two empty reefers from Dean's Trucking on Carroll that came along for the ride. It's a little disconcerting to think that the only traffic San Francisco can generate is contaminated dirt and recycled animal byproducts.

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In regards to the spur from Mountain View to NASA/Ames that hosts the VTA, I know that it has never been used for heavy rail operations since the VTA line was finished. The spur enters Government property at Ellis Street and US-101 and only goes to a two track team track just inside the gate. Back in World War II, there was a extension that ran clear across the Navy base to warehouses on the north end. The warehouses are still there (used by FEMA), but they haven't had rail access since the 1950's or 1960's.

Under the current conditions, I suspect that it will never be used for heavy rail...but since the possibility of delivering by train existed, it probably has to be maintained under some sort of military/emergency contigency plan.

Ron

http://rlehmer.50megs.com/photos/

zephyrus Wrote:
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> Nice shots! Need to take a trip up there some
> time with the camera.
>
> There is 1 RR/Light Rail crossing in Santa Clara
> County. A connector off the ex-SP Vasona line
> crossing the VTA Winchester light rail and joins
> up with an ex-WP spur near downtown San Jose.
>
> Also, there is an interchange track in Mountain
> View along Central Expy. where the CalTrain line
> connects with the VTA. The wire is raised from
> here to Moffet Field to allow high cube cars to
> reach a spur off the VTA into the base. The spur
> branches off right under Highway 101. Two lengths
> of rail are unspiked on the connector at the
> CalTrain line. I don't think the line has ever
> been used by regular heavy rail traffic.
>
> Z

In the first pic, there is a vertical crossing gate behind the train. Why is this vertical...is it a non-activated 4-quadrant gate, or for something else?

casco17 Wrote:

> In the first pic, there is a vertical crossing
> gate behind the train. Why is this vertical...is
> it a non-activated 4-quadrant gate, or for
> something else?

That gate protects the Islais Creek drawbridge on 3rd St. It's not part of the railroad crossing protection.

Deans Trucking was formerly the Americold Corporation, I worked there from 90-95'. Also acros the street, just down the lead from Davinci Trucking (since gone I believe) there was an importer of furniture from Mexico which arrived in 50 & 60' box cars. Just a few blocks away up 3rd Street, on Armstrong Deans Trucking had a spur accessed by the Coca-Cola Lead when it was all intact, amongst all the trucks and cars you'd see a lone rail car spotted there from time to time.

Deans trucking also had an warehouse that was accessed via the Lucky Brewing side of the tracks, which was still being serviced up to the point where Lucky Brewing was being torn down. That was a weird pace to spot the crew would tell me, you'd have all the crackheads that would be jumping out of no where with stolen copper, etc. Of the three cold storage places I mentioned, Americold shipped by rail, not a whole lot but compared to the rest it was something, our loads were mostl inbound meat products and orange juice concentrate.

Aside from my going back a few years, your comment about it being disconcerting that the only traffic is animal by products and dirt, this gives you the excuses to post on TO like anyone else does who follows the operation on the Peninsula and we should all be fortunate there's some freight activity left worth photographing. I look forward to seeing it from others as I'm cooped up at home for a while, and when I recover we could have traffic from Pier 80 across the bridge.

I could go on and on naming all the industries the RR used to spot on two shifts, maybe another time.

As far as the repainted former WP unit, I prefer it in it's older UP scheme if I can't have it in WP. Here's both at SSF not too long ago.

shed47 Wrote:
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> Today's job returned to SSF with three tank loads
> from Darling Int'l., four dirt loads, and two
> empty reefers from Dean's Trucking on Carroll that
> came along for the ride. It's a little
> disconcerting to think that the only traffic San
> Francisco can generate is contaminated dirt and
> recycled animal byproducts.

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The Darby PA Crossing is between a Septa streetcar and a CSX mailine with standard railroad gate protection. CSX has the right of way opver highway and trolley.

Gonut

Hi,I am the regular engineer on the South City Switcher.The Red T stands for Trolley and the Red X tells the operator to stop.I have never seen it happen,but I think when no trains are approaching The T on the bottom is Green and the X is Green.
My crew and I hate switching Darling with a passion,Because even going very slow we average about 3 to 4 near misses when we service that industry.A few months back I hit a van that ignored the lights and the driver came out screaming at us saying "where are the crossing gates?"That same hour one of my ground crew was almost run down by a car in front of a cop and the cop just thought it was funny.
We have been told that we will be able to switch Darling from inside the dirty dirt yard,sometime in the future.