Western Railroad Discussion > EMD H Block engine

Does anyone have new information on this engine block other than what we already know? Has EMD perfected enough for the China order or for reintroduction into the US/Canada market? Rumors at the time of the construction of the SD70ACe demo's were that the demo's were going to be H Block equipped, thus the sloping engine hood over the engine compartment.

I've been curious on this. FOSS tugboat in Seattle has equipment their new tugs with the 265H engine (one of the bigger ones has 2)

It's pretty hard to say just how the China engines are performing though without an insider.

Brian

It is curious about engines in tugs. EMD has been selling 710 V20's for tug use. I hadn't heard of them using the H-blocks. They must work OK, as pulling them out of a tug's hull would be very expensive.

Maybe EMD has finally worked the bugs out of the four-stroke cycle 265H. Last August at Burnham Shop in Denver I saw most of UP's SD90MAC fleet, lined up in a very long dead line. Some of the units were UP-owned, but most were leased from EMD and were being returned. I wonder what sucker will end up with them next? I hear a couple are running as leasers on Buffalo and Pittsburgh. Shortlines will take anybody's cast-offs...

Marine applications are a lot different from locomotive applications. Most marine apps tend to be steady load situations ... long periods at half-power, full-power, etc. Locomotive applications are tough on an engine because of the frequent throttle changes. Yes, I know you can run a coal train up a hill for 2 hours in notch 8. But the average locomotive sees a lot of throttle changes, with the load on the engine going up-and-down all the time. Marine applications also have a huge advantage in that ocean ships or fresh water boats have virtually unlimited cooling, its pretty much a matter of how much ocean or lake/river water you can pump through the engine.

If you look back in diesel locomotive/diesel engine history, the Fairbanks-Morse opposed-piston ("OP") engines were absolutely loved by the US Navy as power plants in World War II submarines. But, again, when an OP engine in a submarine was running at full power, it also had an ocean-full of cool water passing through the heat exchanger inside the submarine. When F-M started putting the OP engines into F-M locomotives, they ran into major difficulties. An engine which was the perfect engine for a submarine encountered overheating problems on locomotives which have limited space for radiators. The F-M Trainmasters on the SP were originally acquired for service across New Mexico and Arizona, but the heavy desert dust just ate up the cylinders.

One man's perfect engine may be another man's nightmare. But the real acid test for any large diesel engine is ... a locomotive.

rresor Wrote:
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> Maybe EMD has finally worked the bugs out of the
> four-stroke cycle 265H. Last August at Burnham
> Shop in Denver I saw most of UP's SD90MAC fleet,
> lined up in a very long dead line. Some of the
> units were UP-owned, but most were leased from EMD
> and were being returned.

None of UP's SD90MAC-Hs were ever owned by UP. All were long-term leased by EMD to UP. The ones you saw at Burnham last August are still there and were not returned. Those that were returned went back in 12/05 and 1/06.

Anyone get to hear one of these running? didnt get to chase any myself, but i always was curious if they sounded deep, or even quiet, etc..

there is on single video on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tHjw3z9L4

Thats my video and there are a couple more under my user name but they are trailing units. Search in youtube for user CNW6500.

Ron
http://www.railfanrails.com/

brianedwardss Wrote:

> Anyone get to hear one of these running? didnt get
> to chase any myself, but i always was curious if
> they sounded deep, or even quiet, etc..

Deep and muffled is the best description. I tried several times to get a good clean recording of one working when the first order (8500-8521) were assigned to the I-5 corridor in California back in 2000. These were the best I got. They are audio files taken from video - some day when I get another video camera I'll post the video clips.

8521 and 8520 depart Bakersfield, CA eastbound: http://atsf.railfan.net/sound/up8521a.wav

8521 working solo as a DPU on a Donner Pass-bound freight departing Roseville, CA: http://atsf.railfan.net/sound/up8521b.wav

greendot Wrote:
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> Marine applications are a lot different from
> locomotive applications. Most marine apps tend to
> be steady load situations ... long periods at
> half-power, full-power, etc. Locomotive
> applications are tough on an engine because of the
> frequent throttle changes. Yes, I know you can run
> a coal train up a hill for 2 hours in notch 8. But
> the average locomotive sees a lot of throttle
> changes, with the load on the engine going
> up-and-down all the time. Marine applications also
> have a huge advantage in that ocean ships or fresh
> water boats have virtually unlimited cooling, its
> pretty much a matter of how much ocean or
> lake/river water you can pump through the engine.
>
> If you look back in diesel locomotive/diesel
> engine history, the Fairbanks-Morse opposed-piston
> ("OP") engines were absolutely loved by the US
> Navy as power plants in World War II submarines.
> But, again, when an OP engine in a submarine was
> running at full power, it also had an ocean-full
> of cool water passing through the heat exchanger
> inside the submarine. When F-M started putting the
> OP engines into F-M locomotives, they ran into
> major difficulties. An engine which was the
> perfect engine for a submarine encountered
> overheating problems on locomotives which have
> limited space for radiators. The F-M Trainmasters
> on the SP were originally acquired for service
> across New Mexico and Arizona, but the heavy
> desert dust just ate up the cylinders.
>
> One man's perfect engine may be another man's
> nightmare. But the real acid test for any large
> diesel engine is ... a locomotive.

Just ask Caterpillar. There engine are eminently successful in their construction equipment, in on-road trucking, and in power generation, etc., but they have come up short in locomotives.

EMD advertises their 710 2-stroke diesel engines for marine applications and notes they were designed for locomotives and are capable of running at full 24 hours a day with a 10% overload 2 hours out of 24 and that they will take a 3g shock load and under wide thermal ranges and run at full power at 10,000 ft elevation (which is not a requirement for marine use). I think that the real killer for engines in locomotive applications is the shock loading and foundation flexing. Anyway, EMD's current website talks about the 4-stroke H block engine as an innovation for locomotive use but they do not seem to currently be pushing it for marine use but they do have some information on the Chinese locomotives. I would suspect that they will try a version of this engine again in the US market.


http://www.emdiesels.com/lms/emdweb/emd_index.jsp

brianedwardss Wrote:
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> Anyone get to hear one of these running?

Almost like a GE ES 44