Western Railroad Discussion > Telephone Pole Lines

Since there was a 'post' this morning about RR Pole Lines which might be used for Telephone, Telegraph, Signal or Power distribution, I thought I would throw out one of my famous trivia teasers from the historical point of view, as follows:--
"Some railroad r-o-w's had (TWO) pole lines running alongside the tracks.... Southern Pacific had quite a few of these instances.. One line ran on one side of the tracks and the other pole line was on the opposite side of the tracks (usually) .... One pole line used 'ROUND' poles while the other pole line used 'SQUARE' poles....
Would any of our readers care to venture a guess as to why the different style poles between the TWO lines ??????
The answer will come later on! Cheers to all!!
"Key Route Ken"

I remember reading once, that some railroads used trackside lines for a radiophone setup, a rudimentary two-way communications deal.

On our route, we have one set that is telephone. Could the square poles be this primitive radio?

I read about this once too. Had soemthing to do with telegraph lines. I know that the square poles are older, assuming that they were for telegraph. The newer (round) poles were likely used for signal circuits and possibly telephone (RR).

Am I close?

Those steel square poles may have carried feeder lines from Fruitvale powerhouse to other points on the electric system. Just a guess. However, come to think of it, they also exist along the Alameda Belt next to Buena Vista Avenue. So...I'll be looking for your final answer...

They also existed in Niles Canyon (may still be a few) on SP's original trans-continental route. Niles was never electrified, so I doubt that they were specifically used for electric operations. I think that they are just very OLD. Guessing that they were used for early telegraph lines.

I don't know about Oakland, but down on the Sunset there were generally two pole lines along the right of way. One for the company, and the other for Western Union. Sometimes they shared the same pole line, where the company would have the lower cross-arms, and Western Union the top.

1) Two poles lines meant one was the railroad's the other was WUT (Western Union Telegraph).

2) Square poles are the center cuts of trees; sort of "leftovers". Wherever found both on railraods and electric utilities, they are quite old. Linemen don't like to climb them.

3) Ken, here's one for your: how can you tell the difference between crossarms for telegraph lines and those for signal wires?

Between Bakersfield and Mojave, there were three pole lines along the tracks in places, the SP signal line, Western Union and the Postal Telegraph Company.

North of Bakersfield, the SP signal line still has many square poles.

Answer to the 'Teaser Question' from this past weekend by 'Key Route Ken' :--
The ROUND poles were used by the railroads for telephone and signal and CTC wires... Also teletype circuits and Wire Chief Order wires...

The SQUARE poles were owned and used by Western Union Telegraph Company... Yes, the linemen hated to use 'hooks' and climb these things. Had to climb on the angled side or edge. Very difficult compared to the typical round telephone pole more commonly used!!

To Inside Observer, I say:-- Telegraph vs. Signal wires on same poles:-- If they were signal MAINS (high voltage), they would probably be on the highest crossarms.
The telegraph wires would probably not only be LOWER but also out to one side of the crossarm, toward the edge and away from center..
Cheers. "Key Route Ken"..

I was referring to the differences between the 10-pin crossarms used for signal and telegraph lines.


Railroads, as single users of their poles, could put just about any type of line on any type of crossarm they wanted, and in just about any combination of uses. High Voltage, by the way, is defined as over 750 volts. That means the 220 volts in your clothes dryer isn't High Voltage. It will kill you just as dead as 12 KV will, yes, but it's not High Voltage. The ATSF CTC installation on the Valley Sub has two large black wires on the end of the 10-pin arm, supported by larger insulators (usually brown). These two wires are the power suppy. Up on SP's Black Butte Subdivision, these lines are on a separate arm higher up; and there are places below Dunsmuir in the canyon where this has been replaced with "service drop" twisted 3-plex. It doesn't need to be on a separate arm either. The CGW rand 220 V AC "signal mains" for miles.

I can't quite accept the answer to the Teaser Question when there are many square poles on the signal line along the UP just north of Bakersfield. Also, the July 1976 issue of Model Railroader had a photo of a square pole in Cajon Pass that had just one crossarm on it, meaning it most likely was not a telegraph company line but rather a railroad signal line (the photo accompanied an answer to a reader's question about square poles).

I may have been a bit hasty in my last remarks. In checking 1950s photos in books and 1960s-1970s photos I took myself between Oil Jct. and Lerdo north of Bakersfield, I see that the telegraph pole line then ran on the east side of the tracks. This is where the present signal line is. The signal line in the photos was either non-evident or on the west side of the tracks. So it is very possible the present signal line is employing the old telegraph poles. A quick check in the field I just made of some of the square poles north of Bakersfield reveals evidence that they once had additional crossarms, supporting the theory they were once telegraph poles.

Correction: The Model Railroader photo was in the July 1977 issue, not the July 1976 issue.

Something I've always wondered about. I've seen almost every pole from Delta to Dunsmuir, including the ones high up on the hillsides abandoned years ago. We used to look for insulators and discovered some poles that had three sides: two straight and one sort of rounded. Not consistent in shape but definitely not square or round. In fact, we currently have one stored for display someday. They seem to usually have one crossarm with four insulator pins. Any ideas? They kind of look like 1/3 of a log cut lengthwise! In fact, one was still standing in the woods below Sims, I think, about 25 years ago.