Western Railroad Discussion > 45-foot containers

I do most of my railfanning in 1:87 scale, but every once in a while I find myself driving along Van Buren Boulevard in the Mira Loma area (that's west of Riverside, CA). Caught a couple of UP double stacks today around noon heading east. Was struck by the appearance of about half a dozen 45-foot APL containers on the first train. My knowledge of intermodal operations is negligible, but I was under the impression that 45-foot boxes had all gone away at least ten years ago. Can one of you intermodal experts enlighten me?

Winston Hill

The containers you refer to are international containers, used by APL or American President Lines. APL is an ocean-going container shipping company, US owned and, operates US flagged vessels, one of the few remaining firms to do so. When it relates to international containers (marine or seagoing 'boxes'), the configuration or size of containers will linger many more years than domestic boxes. The sizes cannot be altered as readily as with domestic boxes. This is because the 'cells' or spaces they fit into aboard ships are not easily convertible. When you consider that a container vessel will cost hundreds of millions of dollars to construct, the shipowner will decide pre-construction what size boxes he will build his ship (oh-sorry I'm supposed to say 'he or she') for, and stick with it for the duration. Also figure that the vessel will have a likely lifespan of 30 years. You're building for the long haul, not the next few years. One more thing - when you see the double stack wellcars, you'll notice that all sizes of containers will be accommodated, with box lengths stenciled on the wellcar, ie. 20 ft, 40 ft, 45 ft, 48 ft, 53 ft.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/11 17:12 by moltensulphur.

OK, but I thought all the international boxes were 40 feet long. Do some of the container ships have holds that take 45-foot boxes? I thought boxes in excess of 40 feet had to ride above deck.

Winston Hill

winstonhill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, but I thought all the international boxes were
> 40 feet long. Do some of the container ships have
> holds that take 45-foot boxes? I thought boxes in
> excess of 40 feet had to ride above deck.
>
> Winston Hill


Most containers are 53', the same length as almost all of the semi truck trailers you see out on the road.

Most container well cars are loaded for 40', 45', 48', and 53'. There are a bunch that are only 40' long though.

Poker2662 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> winstonhill Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK, but I thought all the international boxes
> were
> > 40 feet long. Do some of the container ships
> have
> > holds that take 45-foot boxes? I thought boxes
> in
> > excess of 40 feet had to ride above deck.
> >
> > Winston Hill
>
>
> Most containers are 53', the same length as almost
> all of the semi truck trailers you see out on the
> road.
>
> Most container well cars are loaded for 40', 45',
> 48', and 53'. There are a bunch that are only 40'
> long though.


The question was not about container well cars, it was about container ships.

I believe some container ships do have 45' container cells below decks, but I'm not certain of that.

The 48' (vanishing) and 53' boxes are generally limited to domestic service, though I suppose the corrugated 53-footers could ride topsides if they needed to.

I'm not certain about the ships themselves, but I also always hear that the 45' container is/has been dead but they are still alive and well on trains, at least.

Tom

winstonhill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, but I thought all the international boxes were
> 40 feet long. Do some of the container ships have
> holds that take 45-foot boxes? I thought boxes in
> excess of 40 feet had to ride above deck.
>
> Winston Hill

The international standard for containers is 20 foot and 40 foot. In fact the standard unit of measure for containers is TEU or Twenty five Equivalent Unit. However, since the United States (among others), have capacity for longer containers, many international shippers (like APL) has fudged the "standard" by using longer containers in certain, specific container lanes. I doubt if you were shipping a container to eastern Congo or western Sudan, it would be in anything but to be in 20 or 40 foot standard containers.

A TEU is a TWENTY ft. EQUIVALENT UNIT, not Twenty five Equivalent Unit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/11 19:07 by moltensulphur.

BNSF6400 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> winstonhill Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK, but I thought all the international boxes
> were
> > 40 feet long. Do some of the container ships
> have
> > holds that take 45-foot boxes? I thought boxes
> in
> > excess of 40 feet had to ride above deck.
> >
> > Winston Hill
>
> The international standard for containers is 20
> foot and 40 foot. In fact the standard unit of
> measure for containers is TEU or Twenty five
> Equivalent Unit.

TEU = Twenty-foot Equivalent Unit (which is what I think you meant to write, but brain-cramped)

Considering total waterborne containerized imports from Asia to the United States via West Coast ports in calendar 2009:

Percentage break-out of containers:
22.15% were 20-foot containers
71.21% were 40-foot containers
6.63% were 45-foot containers

Percentage break-out of TEUs:
12.43% were 20s
79.94% were 40s
8.37% were 45s

If one considers rail-borne marine containers, the percentage 20s goes up a couple of points and the percentages of 40s and 45s go down in proportion.

As may be seen, 45s are relatively scarce. There are reefer 45s and dry 45s. Dry 45s are prized by the electronics industry, which is about the only industry to shrink-wrap its imports to USA. All other dry imports are packed in loose cartons. The extra cube of the 45 helps accommodate the shrink-wrapping.

Inbound 45 reefers to the USA are mostly filled with motorcycles from Japan, or, to a lesser extent, tilapia or other frozen fish from China.

In 2010 APL started offering trans-Pacific trade in 53s, but volumes are still quite low.

I believe 45s are handled below decks in at least some below-deck locations.

Best regards,

Rob L.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/11 10:50 by rob_l.

moltensulphur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The containers you refer to are international
> containers, used by APL or American President
> Lines. APL is an ocean-going container shipping
> company, US owned and, operates US flagged
> vessels, one of the few remaining firms to do so.
>

Not correct, APL is a wholly owned subsidiary of Singapore-based Neptune Orient Lines.

http://www.apl.com/about/

NOL purchased the line years ago. They keep the APL name instead of NOL as APL was such a well known name in the business.

gmojim

20ft and 40ft are the standard containers due to international standards set by international agency, cannot remember the exact name. 40ft is the standard large container as may nations do not have roads and infrastructure
to handle larger containers like 53ft.
Most all of the cells in vessels are 40ft long to handle the standard containers. I believe there are vessels with 45ft cells, but not many 45ft cells.
As posted above, some 53ft international units are in use but very small numbers.

New 53ft domestic containers are moved to US eastbound from China , but they are carried above the decks and take up extra space on the vessel.

The 45ft international containers are used by certain specific shippers that need the extra 5 ft to accommodate their product, as was posted above. Same situation we have with some of our customers requiring 45ft boxes for domestic freight to California in the steamship containers.

gmojim

moltensulphur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The containers you refer to are international
> containers, used by APL or American President
> Lines. APL is an ocean-going container shipping
> company, US owned and, operates US flagged
> vessels, one of the few remaining firms to do so.
> When it relates to international containers
> (marine or seagoing 'boxes'), the configuration or
> size of containers will linger many more years
> than domestic boxes. The sizes cannot be altered
> as readily as with domestic boxes. This is because
> the 'cells' or spaces they fit into aboard ships
> are not easily convertible. When you consider that
> a container vessel will cost hundreds of millions
> of dollars to construct, the shipowner will decide
> pre-construction what size boxes he will build his
> ship (oh-sorry I'm supposed to say 'he or she')
> for, and stick with it for the duration. Also
> figure that the vessel will have a likely lifespan
> of 30 years. You're building for the long haul,
> not the next few years. One more thing - when you
> see the double stack wellcars, you'll notice that
> all sizes of containers will be accommodated, with
> box lengths stenciled on the wellcar, ie. 20 ft,
> 40 ft, 45 ft, 48 ft, 53 ft.


APL is not US owned hasn't been for quite some time most of its vessels
also carry a foreign flag or are chartered in .The company is owned by Neptune orient lines of Singapore. Many TO members may remember seeing NOL boxes in the past.
Andy

gmojim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 20ft and 40ft are the standard containers due to
> international standards set by international
> agency, cannot remember the exact name. 40ft is
> the standard large container as may nations do not
> have roads and infrastructure
> to handle larger containers like 53ft.
> Most all of the cells in vessels are 40ft long to
> handle the standard containers. I believe there
> are vessels with 45ft cells, but not many 45ft
> cells.
> As posted above, some 53ft international units are
> in use but very small numbers.
>
> New 53ft domestic containers are moved to US
> eastbound from China , but they are carried above
> the decks and take up extra space on the vessel.
>
> The 45ft international containers are used by
> certain specific shippers that need the extra 5 ft
> to accommodate their product, as was posted above.
> Same situation we have with some of our customers
> requiring 45ft boxes for domestic freight to
> California in the steamship containers.
>
> gmojim
They don't really take up extra space as they are generally loaded on tiers six and seven above the cell guides where there is extra room length wise to carry these boxes from China to satisfy our seemingly never ending lust for them . Indead Maersk recently had the accomodation block on its 91000 tonne Charlotte Maersk extended by at least three levels to enable the carraige of more empty boxes , presumably new 53 footers? Anyone able to clarify this?
Andy

I sorta' knew you guys would pick up on the APL ownership issue. Yes, APL was purchased by Neptune Orient Lines (NOL) of Singapore in 1997. I was gonna' do a second edit of that post, but then I figured hey, let's see how long it takes for someone to nit-pick that one. But yes, for accuracy's sake and unfortunately, it is not a wholly-owned US company, maybe not even a partially-US owned one. Times change....

The agency that sets the size standards for international containers is the ISO or International Organization for Standardization.

This particular thread has evolved into a very informative one. And it certainly is railroad related, given the subject- containers and containerization. Lots of good info in the above posts. My thanks esp. to Rob L, gmojim & northislands for chiming in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/11 08:31 by moltensulphur.

It seems 45-foot is a standard size throughout Europe for "domestic" containers over there. Rarely I have seen them here in North America, though. These European domestic 45's are also of a slightly different design.

northislands Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gmojim Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> They don't really take up extra space as they are
> generally loaded on tiers six and seven above the
> cell guides where there is extra room length wise
> to carry these boxes from China to satisfy our
> seemingly never ending lust for them . Indead
> Maersk recently had the accomodation block on its
> 91000 tonne Charlotte Maersk extended by at least
> three levels to enable the carraige of more empty
> boxes , presumably new 53 footers? Anyone able to
> clarify this?
> Andy

Interesting info, wondered how much room the 53ft used. Thanks for correcting me.

gmojim

moltensulphur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The agency that sets the size standards for
> international containers is the ISO or
> International Organization for Standardization.
>
> This particular thread has evolved into a very
> informative one. And it certainly is railroad
> related, given the subject- containers and
> containerization. Lots of good info in the above
> posts. My thanks esp. to Rob L, gmojim &
> northislands for chiming in.

That is it, I could not remember the name.
thanks, moltensulphur

gmojim