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Date: 11/17/12 17:33
More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: WrongWayMurphy

Looks like everything mechanical was working properly and the UP crew did everything they could under the circumstances.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/17/texas-parade-accident/1711635/



Date: 11/17/12 19:01
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: atsf5701

Has anyone asked the truck (float) driver what he was doing on the tracks?

Seems like they have exhausted all efforts to blame the railroad.



Date: 11/17/12 19:13
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: PGR94

the railroad has the deepest pockets.......



Date: 11/17/12 19:21
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: isambard




Date: 11/17/12 19:47
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: im_trainman

The parade route planner should be answering to charges for this one. I'm sorry, there has to be a better way to route a slow moving parade than over a 70mph railroad. The people who live there have to know that the trains don't creep through there, and the railroad didn't appear in their town the night before the parade. Lack of common sense resulted in the death of 4 American heros.



Date: 11/17/12 20:07
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: Tominde

im_trainman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Lack of common sense..... ....oh wait I thought you were talking about juries.



Date: 11/17/12 20:35
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: gobbl3gook

I guess these two articles, USA Today and WSJ, are as good of media coverage as we're going to get on this tragedy.

I'm surprised the UP isn't repeating mantras like

"expect a train on any track at any time"
"do not begin to cross a railroad track unless you know your vehicle can get completely across, under any circumstances."
"cities should inform the UP if they are having public events on or near railroad tracks, and we will work with them."

As it is, the fluff about "the warning signal and crossing arms were working correctly" fails to help prevent similar crashes in the future.

I'm also surprised that the news media isn't questioning the law enforcement officers that were escorting the veterans. As per the WSJ, "Wherever they went, they got a police escort." Surely the police must have some info about the instructions they were given in escorting the parade, and how they handled the RR crossing. Also, police officers, given the 10 crashes there in the last 30 years, would know that 70 mph trains can be very unforgiving, and would seem to have had the brains to figure out that they should look for trains before leading a 3 mph flatbed full of people across the tracks.

The RR PR people appear to be forthright and communicative, the city staff that bungled the operation less so, and I would have thought USA Today or at least the WSJ would start to sniff that one out.

My $0.02
Ted in OR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/12 20:37 by gobbl3gook.



Date: 11/17/12 20:39
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: CarolVoss

I think Texas has their own set of rules and never mind what the rest of us think--
C.

Carol Voss
Salinas, CA



Date: 11/17/12 21:25
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: DPKrause

atsf5701 Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> Seems like they have exhausted all efforts to
> blame the railroad.


Good grief...I havn't gotten the impression from what I've read on this that anyone is trying to ''blame'' UP. Although it's fairly obvious what happened here, I would expect a proper investigation to look at it from every angle.



Date: 11/17/12 21:39
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: defect_detector

Rather curious how the traffic signals are programmed in TX when meeting RR crossings like that?

Here in CA, upon activation of the crossing gates warning phase, the traffic lights automatically turn green to clear traffic off of the opposing side of the crossing to prevent tragic accidents like these from happening. In other words, the light would've turned green permitting the other traffic and the truck to pull clear of the crossing instead of being stuck behind another vehicle (witness in one of the articles the other day indicated there was a vehicle in front of the semi who wouldn't pull up despite the semi driver honking once he was aware of the oncoming train, though I can't find the link now...).



Date: 11/17/12 21:56
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: DoctorThunder

Get it through your heads that during a parade traffic lights are inconsequential, for all intents and purposes they do not exist.



Date: 11/17/12 22:01
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: lowwater

MagnumForce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get it through your heads that during a parade
> traffic lights are inconsequential, for all
> intents and purposes they do not exist.


Exactly. And the same re railroad crossing signals. Just ignore them, the train will stop -- after all, this is a parade!



Date: 11/17/12 22:09
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: miralomarail

Throw in some Disracted Drivers and it all Changes so Quickly



Date: 11/17/12 22:14
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: poffcapt

MagnumForce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get it through your heads that during a parade
> traffic lights are inconsequential, for all
> intents and purposes they do not exist.


If traffic lights are inconsequential, then why didn't the guy in front of the truck pull ahead?



Date: 11/17/12 22:21
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: DoctorThunder

Read the article, he never stopped on the crossing. Also this is during a parade, they stop and accordian for no apparent reason, you also drive down the wrong side of the road, blare your horns, flash your lights, don't pay attention to red lights, and ride chairs strapped to flatbeds.

I can't believe how everyone does not get the concept of a parade, have you never been to one or what?



Date: 11/17/12 22:35
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: im_trainman

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> im_trainman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Lack of common sense..... ....oh wait I thought
> you were talking about juries.

I'm not quite sure how you got that, however I thought I made it apparent that I was talking about the person who said "hey lets route this thing over the railroad" in addition to that, I would like to add that common sense is lacking in all parts of society now days.



Date: 11/17/12 22:45
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: darkcloud

atsf5701 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone asked the truck (float) driver what he
> was doing on the tracks?
>
> Seems like they have exhausted all efforts to
> blame the railroad.



From the article:

But he couldn't help also thinking about the man driving the flatbed truck that was hit, a young soldier who wore his uniform for the occasion.

"I can't even imagine what that kid is going through," Sgt. Shoemaker said. "He was devastated. It blows me away that he's going to have to live with this."



Date: 11/17/12 23:12
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: darkcloud

Thanks to x4449 for posting this in the other thread:

NTSB Brief on 11/17/12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Accte0lwn6Y&feature=g-all-u

From the NSTB..

It is a 70MPH Track in a Quite Zone.

21 SBI (Seconds Before Impact) the south traffic light went green (to clear crossing).
20 SBI Crossing bells and lights start.
20 SBI lead truck had rear of trailer clearing south track.
13 SBI Gates start down.
12 SBI Accident Truck STARTS across north track.
09 SBI Horn stars on loco.
07 SBI Gates hit trailer.
05 SBI Train goes into emergency and completely stops 75 seconds later.



Date: 11/17/12 23:34
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: vegasrails

None of what anyone is writing is new. A Flatbed getting hit by a train, people dead or injuried. Any one who been on this forum or been in the hobby awhile knows. Rehashing it doesnot change anything. Let the NTSB do their job and let's move on. I'm sorry for the loss of life, and along with the impact to the crew, first responders and the driver.
Maybe one day these incidents will stop in the mean time since Thursday the average reflects that a vehicle or person has had an incident with a train at least 16 times nationwide over the past 48 hrs.



Date: 11/18/12 00:11
Re: More info on the Midland parade tragedy
Author: dan

I am afraid that quiet zones just took 12 steps back, unfortunately, the horn would have been sounding earlier not that would have changed much, or been much earlier potentially, the engineer just see traffic over the crossing initially something quite common at 4:40pm, expects it to clear.



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