Western Railroad Discussion > Emergency Operation

When an engineer places his train in Emergency, what is the process for initiating that operation, and what happens to ensure that the consist does not derail?

Thanks,
Frank

An emergency application initiated by the engineer is fairly rare and is a last chance
response. Most occur as "UDE" or undesired emergencies and are the result of a rapid loss
of trainline air. A head end application made by moving the air brake handle to the
emergency position tends to bunch the train front to back. The UDE since it's initiated
most likely by a train line break can occur anywhere in the train making the stretch
and bunch very irregular though often it occurs because the train is already derailed
parting hoses as the cars separate. Once the application occurs the engineer has little
control over the braking action and must recover his air for the train to move again.

Well it's pretty simple to initiate an emergency application. You can put the automatic brake handle into the emergency position ("big hole"). You can open the conductors valve. Or you can open the angle cock on the rear or front of the train quickly. I've also seen it where if the slack runs out real hard on certain kinds of cars, it can dump the air without separating the train. Most railroads get real testy about emergency brake applications, but it used to be a good joke to play on conductors. When they were cutting the air on a string of cars and you saw the brake pipe pressure start to drop on the locomotive, you could throw the brake handle into emergency then get on the radio and start chiding them about making the rookie mistake of cutting the air in too quickly. You could do that all day long to a gullible conductor and have then absolutely flustered. It was great fun with a rookie brakeman too!

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

>When an engineer places his train in Emergency, what is the process for initiating that operation,

Move the engineer's brake valve handle to the Emergency position or open the emergency brake valve on the fireman's side of the cab.

>and what happens to ensure that the consist does not derail?

Gravity.

Dont forget to bail.....

jkchubbes Wrote:
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> Dont forget to bail.....

The Independent, or engine brakes that is, as opposed to making like a bird

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
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> >and what happens to ensure that the consist does
> not derail?
>
> Gravity.


That isn't always the case, it's a last chance option because the in-train forces are enough to cause damage to equipment and possibly derail it.

We are instructed to place the automatic brake handle in emergency, initiate the emergency function on the ETD if one is linked to the head end, move the independent brake ( locomotive brake ) handle into the service zone ( I was always told about 30-40lbs ) and actuate the remaining pressure off to make sure the wheels on the motor do not slide

CasperLine Wrote:
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> We are instructed to place the automatic brake
> handle in emergency, initiate the emergency
> function on the ETD if one is linked to the head
> end, move the independent brake ( locomotive brake
> ) handle into the service zone ( I was always told
> about 30-40lbs ) and actuate the remaining
> pressure off to make sure the wheels on the motor
> do not slide

And what about the dynamics?

Does the throttle drop to idle when the brake pipe pressure drops?

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

An old experienced engineer once told me the engineer was in control of the train until he placed the handle into the emergency position. At that point events were largely beyond his control.

lwilton Wrote:
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> CasperLine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We are instructed to place the automatic brake
> > handle in emergency, initiate the emergency
> > function on the ETD if one is linked to the
> head
> > end, move the independent brake ( locomotive
> brake
> > ) handle into the service zone ( I was always
> told
> > about 30-40lbs ) and actuate the remaining
> > pressure off to make sure the wheels on the
> motor
> > do not slide
>
> And what about the dynamics?


Some RR's put DB holding features on their locomotives. They came out on new power a few years ago, and most of the BNSF fleet was retrofitted. If you are operating in DB and the brakes go into emergency, the DB will continue to work normally, almost to a stop. Before this feature was added, the PC would knock out power or DB, leaving you with independent only.

john1082 Wrote:
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> Does the throttle drop to idle when the brake pipe
> pressure drops?


Only if you go into Emergency, or if you get a penalty application from the alerter or cab signals which in that case only puts you in Suppression. Regular setting of the air will not cause the power to go to idle.

When your brakes go into undesired emergency, you don't really know the cause right away. I was taught to bail off the engine first thing, until you could get a feel for what is going on. You may have come apart a short distance back from the engine, and if that's the case, you don't want to get rear ended by your own train by letting the engine brakes build up. Afte a few seconds, if it felt like most of the trains was still together, you can start working the independent, to bunch up what ever slack you have, building it up to the max about the time you stop to prevent a runout if you can. The sanders will be running, so you don't have to worry about that. If you have DP's, you can't control the brakes on them in emergency. They will take care of themselves by limiting brake cylinder pressure to 45 psi and turning on their sanders.

>>Gravity

> That isn't always the case, it's a last chance option because the in-train forces are enough to cause damage to equipment and possibly derail it.

The OP asked about the locomotives, at least that's what "consist" means to a locomotive engineer such as myself. The rest of the train is the "wheel report" or "manifest".

It's very rare for an Emergency brake application to derail the [locomotive] consist. The rest of the train is another matter, particularly when moving less than about 20 mph, around curves, and/or with improper distributions of empties and loads.

>We are instructed to place the automatic brake handle in emergency, initiate the emergency function on the ETD if one is linked to the head end, move the independent brake ( locomotive brake ) handle into the service zone ( I was always told about 30-40lbs ) and actuate the remaining pressure off to make sure the wheels on the motor do not slide

In the 1970s-80s, The SP required bailing the [locomotive] consist unless you were in dynamic, in which case, immediately apply the independent to prevent a slack run-out. DB holding is a recent change, and with any DB-holding equipped locomotive, you don't need to apply the independent until train speed drops below about 10 mph (as we all know, there are NEVER problems with dynamic brakes). Procedures have also changed with FREDs, and I've never operated a FRED-equipped freight train.

Amtrak doesn't want you to touch the bail nor them dymaniac brakes. Any Emergency application on any Amtrak train anywhere in the US sets off alarm bells in CNOC (nerve center of the Best Passenger Railroad In The World).

>Does the throttle drop to idle when the brake pipe pressure drops?

Assuming you mean that it has dropped because of an Emergency brake application, yes. This is the PCS feature, and there are two different ways of integrating it into the control system. With one, it doesn't unload the locomotive when it's in a trailing position, the unloading of trailing units being accomplished by the PCS on the controlling one. With the other method, each unit is [also] unloaded individually. The problem with method #2 is that if a trailing unit's PCS doesn't reset, it won't load, while with method #1, the unit will load.

>An old experienced engineer once told me the engineer was in control of the train until he placed the handle into the emergency position. At that point events were largely beyond his control.

You becha.

> I was taught to bail off the engine first thing, until you could get a feel for what is going on. You may have come apart a short distance back from the engine, and if that's the case, you don't want to get rear ended by your own train by letting the engine brakes build up

I know of one grade crossing accident with an Amtrak train where the automobile drove through the gates and struck one of the uncoupling levers between the two locomotives, uncoupling the first unit from the second one (train speed was about 70). This, of course, parted the brake pipe, creating a "UDE" (Atk like to call them UQAs at the time). The engineer, being an old [SP] freight guy, bailed the independent, and when they finally got stopped to look back, they couldn't see their train (it was nighttime). The lead locomotive was almost 1 1/2 miles away from the rest of the train.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
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> >>Gravity
>
> > That isn't always the case, it's a last chance
> option because the in-train forces are enough to
> cause damage to equipment and possibly derail it.
>
> The OP asked about the locomotives, at least
> that's what "consist" means to a locomotive
> engineer such as myself. The rest of the train is
> the "wheel report" or "manifest".


True enough, the locomotives have always been referred to as the "consist", not the trailing cars.

sp5312 Wrote:
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> jkchubbes Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dont forget to bail.....
>
> The Independent, or engine brakes that is, as
> opposed to making like a bird

Not a good idea to bail the independent off all the way otherwise you risk getting a nasty run-out and possibly a knuckle. I usually move the independent brake over about half way and then bail.

bnsfjordan Wrote:
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> Not a good idea to bail the independent off all
> the way otherwise you risk getting a nasty run-out
> and possibly a knuckle. I usually move the
> independent brake over about half way and then
> bail.

Some railroads require, in their air brake rules, the engineer to bail off in the case of any emergency application.

Much of what goes on depends on individual circumstances. Are you in power or dynamic? Uphill or downhill? Block of empty flats in the train from mid point or forward? No way would I want to go from throttle to emergency, and let any locomotive brake cylinder pressure build up with even a handful of empty flats together near the front of the train. You would be asking for a lift off. In that case, it would be better to shoot the air from the EOT first, bail, and then shoot the head end to keep it stretched out.

In a UDE, I would alway bail off because you don't know if you have a train separation, and that rear portion could be catching up to you quickly if you put on any independent.

Given the two choice of bailing and possibly getting a knuckle, versus getting a huge run in that may lift cars off the track, I'll take my chances on a knuckle. It is much easier to explain a knuckle, than why you did something that now requires Hulcher or RJ Corman to clean up.

As far as power cutoff ... one also has to keep in mind that not all locomotives on a given railroad may be equipped the same. Conrail was notorious for equipping most locomotives with one type (PCS 1), and locomotives assigned to helper service with another (PCS 2). The rationalization was, that in the event of an undesired emergency application, you WANT the helpers to cut off power immediately. You don't want them to keep shoving while the cars ahead are in emergency. The head end power, on the other hand, may want to retain power through a UDE to keep the train stretched, rather than shutting off suddenly and creating a huge run in. The basic difference between the two PCS types was this: PCS 1 only activated if you either failed to acknowledge a cab signal or alerter reset, or placed the automatic brake handle in emergency. PCS 2 would do all of that, but ALSO activate if the train line depleted at an emergency rate for any other reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/13 15:02 by bioyans.