Western Railroad Discussion > Train Horns

I have become curious about something lately. We have many trains going though our area, sometimes one after the other. Sometimes the horn blasts are 2 long blasts and one short and sometimes there are 2 long and a couple of short. Is there any significance to this difference? When I used to drive a boat through a large city, we were required to use a special sequence or horn blasts when passing under and exiting under a lift bridge, so I thought maybe trains also used length of the sound to indicate something different. Any answers out there? Thanks in advance for solving this mystery.

http://www.up.com/aboutup/funstuff/horn_signals/

Check this page out.
Mike

They should add the 'fun stuff' about how loud the horns are and how the crew gets some sort of insulator, be it ear plugs or cab design, where the Public is intended to be blasted to the very last second. There's a statement about how the horn is to alert someone a few feet in front of the locomotive coupler, with a measured rating up around 110dBi. Not fun, not comparable to historic either.

TCnR Wrote:
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> They should add the 'fun stuff' about how loud the
> horns are and how the crew gets some sort of
> insulator, be it ear plugs or cab design, where
> the Public is intended to be blasted to the very
> last second. There's a statement about how the
> horn is to alert someone a few feet in front of
> the locomotive coupler, with a measured rating up
> around 110dBi. Not fun, not comparable to historic
> either.


yeah well we could just quit blowing the horn all together & count up how many more people get run over if the horn bothers you so much or you could move to Hawaii I hear they don't have any railroads there to disturb you have a nice day

If you get a chance join the human race. Most folks would get nailed even with a lot less horn. The Golden Gate bridge doesn't even have a train horn.

Nice day back at ya.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/14 19:40 by TCnR.

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They should add the 'fun stuff' about how loud the
> horns are and how the crew gets some sort of
> insulator, be it ear plugs or cab design, where
> the Public is intended to be blasted to the very
> last second. There's a statement about how the
> horn is to alert someone a few feet in front of
> the locomotive coupler, with a measured rating up
> around 110dBi. Not fun, not comparable to historic
> either.

Any and all complaints with respect to locomotive whistles as to intensity and frequency should be directed to the Federal Railroad Administration. It's their rule, not ours.

No doubt the RR is in full compliance, they have the tapes to prove it. I don't think a website named 'funstuff' is covers the subject appropriately. Including what happens to Employees who don't comply. I'm sure the FRA will jump to respond to any comments.
> -----
...
> It's their rule, not ours.

The train horn saved me lots of paper work over the years in avoiding accidents, I was glad I had it to use against all the people driving or walking in a fog.

I like trains.

Posted from iPhone

Maybe to satisfy certain people they will put the ugly two-note hooter-horns such as on Metrolink to satisfy those that don't like train horns? Meanwhile there are FRA limits on the "overblowing" of horns (I can't remember now being retired and nor do I any longer care--as I think that some overzealous RFEs sometimes "OVERDID IT" with regards to that, still do, but nobody ever whined to me). But living relatively close to a mainline, I can also see the other side--the idiots of my former profession that if not going track speed still (and totally against the FRA Rules and now the GCOR) insist upon blowing the horn even if at a crawl from the whistle board to the crossing at 0300A. Moderation in all things, folks.

Meanwhile, there actually are those of us that like nicely-tuned five chime air horns that have a pleasant sound such as those found on Amtrak and most psgr locomotives, the new FRA-Mandated Nathans on the post-2005 EMDs and GE freight units, or the older 5-Chimes of yesteryear. There's nothing worse than a bad-sounding "train horn." Or, one improperly blown.

Thanks, that's helpful. I also ready that different railroads may have their own variation of a horn signal pattern (the trains I hear are CN, but they don't have similar info on their website). Very interesting.

Red Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe to satisfy certain people they will put the
> ugly two-note hooter-horns such as on Metrolink to
> satisfy those that don't like train horns?
> Meanwhile there are FRA limits on the
> "overblowing" of horns (I can't remember now being
> retired and nor do I any longer care--as I think
> that some overzealous RFEs sometimes "OVERDID IT"
> with regards to that, still do, but nobody ever
> whined to me). But living relatively close to a
> mainline, I can also see the other side--the
> idiots of my former profession that if not going
> track speed still (and totally against the FRA
> Rules and now the GCOR) insist upon blowing the
> horn even if at a crawl from the whistle board to
> the crossing at 0300A. Moderation in all things,
> folks.
>
> Meanwhile, there actually are those of us that
> like nicely-tuned five chime air horns that have a
> pleasant sound such as those found on Amtrak and
> most psgr locomotives, the new FRA-Mandated
> Nathans on the post-2005 EMDs and GE freight
> units, or the older 5-Chimes of yesteryear.
> There's nothing worse than a bad-sounding "train
> horn." Or, one improperly blown.


Nicely said Red, I agree with you. There is nothing worse than a train horn that sounds like a goose, which we all experienced. The great sounding 5-chimes of yesteryear and post 2005 are music to the ears.

Pure music in the right hands and conditions

Nathan old cast P5r24

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Airchime K5LLAr1L

Gary

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The rules on whistle signals are universal and apply to all railroads governed by the FRA. However since conditions vary; speed, distance to the crossing, visibility, and the fact that a human has to actuate the horn button; the number of signals and the duration will vary. Some locomotives are equipped with an automatic horn button that sounds the correct two long one short and one long signal continuously until reset. This can allow the engineer to handle other functions of train control while passing through numerous closely spaced crossings. I have talked to engineers who have had trespass or crossing incidents say they used to be more conservative with the horn but now blow it loud and long, public be damned, in hopes of preventing another bad encounter. Some of us are gluttons for punishment. I live next to a grade crossing on a busy main line and hear various horns and their use daily. I am also a horn collector so I can hear the sounds of some nicely tuned older horns from my collection as well as the newer horns on the modern units passing the house, some sound good and others are really bad. The only requirement for a horn is that it be loud, not sound pretty. I enjoy the occasional older unit that still has its original Leslie as the Nathans take over and I can take my horns to our museum to mount on some of our engines for variety as well as keeping the existing ones in good repair. Many different facets to this hobby.

P5r24 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pure music in the right hands and conditions
>
> Nathan old cast P5r24

Indeed, sounded like No. 57 blowing for Vermont St. in Blue Island.
Very, very good, love the P5 with the signature squeal that pops in.

So far the FRA has not limited the railroads to Nathan's. We can use any horn old, new or rebuilt as Long as it is between 96 db and 110 db.

There is no regulation as to note or frequency.

As far as blowing the horn if you are at 45 mph or faster start at the whistle board. Below 45 mph you need to blow a minimum of 15 seconds to 20 seconds. I am a RFE and tell the guys I can not protect them for less than 15 seconds but over 20 if they fell it is necessary for safety they are good to go.

Also the regulation addresses how to measure the db's. If the horn is roof mounted then you need the meter 4' above the rail 100' ahead of coupler. If the horn is mounted out on the hood the meter can be 15' above the rail 100' ahead of the coupler. All of the new locomotives have their horns out about center on the hood which may allow for the use if a restrictor to meter the db level down to a level below 110 db's.

Hope this helps.

The railroads can use,

Nathan M horns, P horns or Current K horns.

Prime horns.

Leslie horns.

Wabco horns.

As far as K horns go the bells available are 1L, 1, 2, 3, 3a, 3b, 4, 4a, and 5.

The railroad can order a manifold as follows, single, double, triple low or high mount, K5 low or high.

The railroad can mix the Nathan bells as they wish to get the cord they want.

Amtrak uses a K5LA bells 1, 2, 3a, 4a and 5.

If you place a Nathan 1L, 1 and 3b on a K3 manifold you may be close to a Leslie sounding Nathan.

Then their is the Grumppy Nathan K5 with bells 1L, 1, 2, 3b and 4. Kind of sounds like the old Nathan M horns.

The Class ones are locked into what EMD and GE supply. Class 3's have shops who still can maintain and build custom horns.

Hope this helps



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/14 19:12 by ATSFlocal73-74.

ATSFlocal73-74, thanks for the detail about measuring db level. You also reenforced my point about some crews being a little gun shy about crossings, some here start at the whistle post and blow clear through both crossings in our small town regardless of speed, while others don't. I know that the horns are not restricted to type, tone or age, only db level, but out here on the BNSF mainline anything other than newer Nathans are rare. The mix of EMD and GE units from BNSF, CSX, NS, CP, CN and even UP by here gives some color and variety of horns. The local has an ex-ATSF unit with a Leslie but 2 similar units have had them replaced with newer Nathans. I can always tell when 537 is leading. And as parts for the older horns become harder to get, and newer units come on line, the old horns become less frequently heard. The regionals and short lines still have some unique horns, but often not as well maintained so they don't sound as good but are still within the db rating. And I have not heard an M horn outside of a museum or collection in a long time. As to the Nathan K5LLA sounding like an M5, I own both and agree that in side by side tests they do sound very much alike.

MP 4093

Nathan K's are now the norm account of their ease of repair and maintenance. It is just dollars and cents.

My favorite horns are the Nathan P3 and 5 new and old cast.

I grew up in California with SP P horns everywhere. It is in my blood.