Western Railroad Discussion > Disappointment with Cat and EMD

When Cat purchased EMD, I had hoped for a big change for EMD. Both companies seem to have been caught with their pants down with regards to Tier 4 production. Trains magazine listed 2015 orders, all GE:
BNSF 310
CN 90
CSX 200
KCS 50
UP 218

The only Tier 4 units EMD will deliver will be the commuter F125's with a Cat V20 engine. EMD better get on the ball or be eliminated from US diesel production and in some ways, they already are.

Disappointing to see that NS has not continued on with buying more AC traction GEs, they were doing so well for a few years there, now nothing but used crap, and they wonder why they can't move any trains. Sure wish they would get some of these tier 4s

Posted from Android

Don't know the details but the EMD/UP Tier4 "demo" #9900 in Roseville has been MIA for some months now.

Norfolk Southern has apparently been very happy with their SD60E and SD40E rebuild programs. The recent purchases provide plenty of fodder for more rebuilds.

Along with the GE "8.5" rebuilds, they have several years of rebuilt, reliable power coming on deck. Made by NS people in Altoona and Roanoke. If they can rebuild power at half the cost of new horsepower, what's wrong with that?

I don't shed any tears for EMD. They had a decade to prepare for Tier 4, but they cut corners and followed a dead-end R&D path for far too long. GE simply invested the money and did the hard work, so they get the reward.

Cause those SD60Es are junk that's why

Posted from Android

Looks like some great opportunities for new EMD/CAT CEOs here, they got all the answers.

SlipperyWhenWet Wrote:
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> Cause those SD60Es are junk that's why
>
> Posted from Android

And what would you consider NOT junk? Most rails cry and whine weather it,s new or rebuilt!

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
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> Looks like some great opportunities for new
> EMD/CAT CEOs here, they got all the answers.

Rimshot!

Now would be a great time for Alco, Baldwin, and FM to get back into production once again. :)

Alco and FM prime movers are still IN production...

tx_trainman54 Wrote:
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> SlipperyWhenWet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cause those SD60Es are junk that's why
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> And what would you consider NOT junk? Most rails
> cry and whine weather it,s new or rebuilt!

I consider an engine that is a turd being polished a piece of junk. The ES44ACs are very good engines, good puller, doesnt load as quick as an ACe but a solid locomotive, those SD60Es have crappy cabs, loud, just aren't very good power

I'm having a mental something or the other on CAT. The export business including China is crap, there's
a large American market for locomotives and they seem to be putting little effort into said market. Me
thinks they're not only missing the boat but also the ocean it's sailing on.

Out

So we have seen this before in the industry. If a diesel manufacturer cannot keep up with the technology there two outcomes. They might stumble, recover and go on. Otherwise they get out of the business such as Lima, FM, Baldwin and Alco have done already.


This is the free market model and the way capitalism works.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

I,m really starting to wonder WHY Cat bought EMD in the first place. Instead of letting the only other U.S locomotive builder fall flat on it,s face, why not just put em up for sale again?

I was wondering if there was any truth about this... a friend told me EMD wont deliver any in 2015. Somebody really dropped the ball on this one.

I certainly can't see EMD ever coming back (but, could be proven wrong and hope to be). Maybe a Chinese firm will buy them and start producing EMD's in China, kind'a like Volvo is doing with vehicles?

This is sure a huge win for GE. Imagine, being the only producer in a large market, huge profits for them!

While GE was owned by a large corporation which wanted to be #1 in each market they competed in and was willing to invest in locomotives to make that happen, EMD was part of General Motors who was not sure they even wanted to stay in the locomotive business and moved investment and support elsewhere while putting EMD on the market.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Ok folks come on why would a tractor company buy a locomtive company... It is not hard, there are tons of patents and other things that cat is able to learn from the locomotive side they can then use in the making of the tractors.

Also has no one worked in the railroad industry before? Cat has not owned EMD for very long yet. It takes years to change a management mind set. Many of the GM folks are still at EMD and until that mindset is gone EMD will have a hard time changing. Look at GM car-truck GOVY Motors! Uh we have to tell you that the cobalt kills you and the airbags don't work ooopsss! We thought we had swept that under the rug better then that....
Same thing with Railamerica and Fortress folks who now have been moved into G and W. It is easy to tell that some of the former Rail America folks are working at G and W. Properties that should have been cleared up years ago are only now getting any attention (TPW for example) Power is still a hodge podge at all of their roads. They think if they throw orange paint on it no one will notice it is still some older stuff.
I don't think EMD is going anywhere, the sad thing is if Cat had been awake they would hopefully get on the ball as there is no demand for tractors (mining down/oil down), but huge demand for motors Sand/Oil!
It is also not like other Tiers are coming down the pike. GE may have been here for Tier 4, but knowing Cat they may be thinking ahead and skip tier 4 and be here with a tier 5 or 6 beating GE to the market.