Western Railroad Discussion > Rail Fanning at Bealville Advisory

This last Saturday, 4/30, I spent the day train watching with a non-rail enthusiast friend between Bakersfield and Tehachapi. Late in the afternoon I was returning from Tehachapi on the main Highway 58 and turned off the highway and dropped down to Bealville on Bealville Road and saw a UP train in the hole on the downhill side and turned left on to the dirt thinking that a train would soon appear going up the hill eastbound. I saw a telephone poll about 25 yards in front of me with a no trespassing sign that I had never seen before. I pulled past another minivan parked with its back to the fence with a gentleman watching the tracks and parked about 15 yards from the road along the fence.

After a short wait a BNSF support pickup pulled down to the UP train and we could see a man don an orange vest and enter the cab of the UP engine. Then a BNSF police SUV pulled down to the engines. After a couple of minutes, the BNSF police SUV came back toward the road and stopped along my vehicle. The officer got out and came up to the passenger window and asked if we were rail-fanning. I remarked that we were he said that he has met rail fans from all over the world mostly up at the loop. He then said that we were parked on railroad property.

I told him that I had traversed the Tehachapi’s for 50 years by train or car accompanying my father as he worked rail or tunnel inspections or derailments. When I entered the dirt area I told him I saw the sign and made sure that I did not pass that sign and parked close to the fence. He then remarked that any of the dirt area was railroad property.

He then said that he need to see our identification as he needed to show his boss that he was doing his job and would enter the information in a data base. Before he left I related to him that earlier in the day we had found an injured stray dog on Bena Road and spent an hour and a half with a UP Police officer trying to get an animal control officer to rescue to no avail. The UP officer and I were able to pick up the dog and place it in my pickup bed. The UP officer even gave us two UP calendars! The BNSF officer thought he might have some calendars....

He left for a few minutes, and then walked back after he wrote my license plate down. He only had one calendar left and gave it to us. I then asked him what he considered as railroad property. He replied that since they had graded this area for expansion it was railroad property up to the fence. But usually he said that railroad property is 25 feet from either side of the center of the track.

The officer then walked over to the gentleman in the van and started talking to him.

Obviously BNSF does not want anyone stopping at Bealville off the payment. It’s a new world as the railroads fight cargo theft. Taking names is also a concern especially when it is clear that most rail enthusiasts support railroads and call in issues to the railroads when they see them. I surely have. My non railroad friend was not too happy to be carded either......

If you encounter them don’t forget to ask for a calendar!
 

He might have given you a warning, but now your in there data base for life! If you ever get stopped again, they will say you were warned in the past, when they hand you a ticket for trespassing.

You can thank the weak Judges in California for this. Thieves are caught and released without little consequences. So they continue to steal without fear. Same with Graffiti artist. Nothing happens to them as well.   

Valleyman

I'm surprised there was even a BNSF officer around as this is all UP's railroad and property? And the hits just keep on coming.
​JB

There was a news story recently about all the thefts from trains on the Hill. Also, BNSF is paying for half of the work going on there now - the rest comes from the state...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Valleyman Wrote:
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> You can thank the weak Judges in California for
> this. Thieves are caught and released with
> little consequences.

That's because all of them are penniless and citing them to pay a fine is an excercise in futility.  You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.  On the other hand, they ARE aware that YOU, as a member of the shrinking middle class, DO have some money in your pocket and will probably pay a fine if cited, just to stay out of trouble with the law.   

> So they continue to steal
> without fear. Same with Graffiti artist. Nothing
> happens to them as well.

Throwing them in jail gives them an improvement in their standard-of-living and they can compare notes on how to be a better criminal with all their fellow inmates.  
 

The May "Trains" has a short article about the recovery of cell phones and other merchandise stolen from trains stopped in various places between Bakersfield and Mojave, including Caliente.  I'm not surprised that they have stepped up enforcement, especially around a stopped train at an easily-accessible spot like Bealville.   

What will be interesting is how the locals react to this.  At Bealville if you are on the road headed to Caliente the no tresspassing sides have on been on the left side of the road for about the last fifteen years.  There have never been no tresspassing signs on the right side road leading to the tunnels.  I know that the locals use the road going to the tunnels to pass over the tracks to another road along side of the tracks to get around slow moving trains.  I really wonder how stealing is really going on?  And if there is wouldn't most the stealing be happenning at night?  If so I would think that the BNSF and UP police better start working during the night hours and spend a lot less or no time giving the locals or railfans a bad time.

On a good note last year on the day or so before before Thanksgiving I was rail fanning at Bealville when I met a very nice UP police officer.  We talked for a while and he understood what railfanning was about and liked railfans because he said they are another set of eyes looking out for things.  I sure hope that he is still around.

The locals won't have much, if any, reaction at all. They don't usually park along the tracks watching trains.
 

PHall Wrote:
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> The locals won't have much, if any, reaction at
> all. They don't usually park along the tracks
> watching trains.
>

I believe he's referring to locals using the dirt road that crosses over tunnel 3.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/16 05:13 by Curt.

Keep in mind that unless the cop is citing you for something, showing your ID is strictly voluntary! Id be more worried about hackers. Police data bases can get hacked by those looking to steal peoples identities and the more data bases you're on, the better the chance your ID may get stolen.

Does anyone know the status of the area around tunnel 2 above Caliente?  It's been over 15 years for me, but I used to shoot eastbounds from the hill between the road and the track, and I also used to drive up the dirt road to the top of the hill over the tunnel, and slide under the fence to shoot westbounds in the afternoon.  Has anyone been bothered in that area?

hot_tub Wrote:
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> Does anyone know the status of the area around
> tunnel 2 above Caliente?  It's been over 15 years
> for me, but I used to shoot eastbounds from the
> hill between the road and the track, and I also
> used to drive up the dirt road to the top of the
> hill over the tunnel, and slide under the fence to
> shoot westbounds in the afternoon.  Has anyone
> been bothered in that area?

One of the ranchers that owns land around tunnel #1 is known to be hostile to anybody on or near his property.  He is reportedly one of the ranchers targeted by the "meat men" (the illegal slaughter of calves and cattle by individuals who then sell the meat to guys operating the taco trucks...this is not something new, as it has been going on for awhile).  I actually found a dead calf along side the road up near tunnel 2 in 2014.  The "meat men" took part of the calf they wanted and dumped the rest of it in a ditch.  Before I could report what I found via cell phone I spotted the UP PO driving up from Caliente, flagged him down and reported it.  He said at the time they had a very good idea who was behind all the illegal activity, including the break-in's on BNSF trains, but gathering evidence on these crimes can be a very lengthly process and the criminals know this.  Yes, the UP PO is a good guy and is very tolerant of fans as long as you're not doing something stupid.  He said the area above tunnel 2 is OK as long as you stay within the barbed wire fencing.  I don't think that "rule" has changed.  However I understand ranchers are now much quicker to report anybody on or near their property, so railfans in that area need to take that under consideration.  They are not likely to approach a vehicle, they will just call the Kern Co sheriff.


Allen


 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/16 18:45 by bradleymckay.

wigwag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keep in mind that unless the cop is citing you for
> something, showing your ID is strictly voluntary!
> Id be more worried about hackers. Police data
> bases can get hacked by those looking to steal
> peoples identities and the more data bases you're
> on, the better the chance your ID may get stolen.

That's not correct. If you are trespassing on the property (whether you knew it or not), they can demand your identification. That is whether they were going to cite you or not.

For that matter, even if you are not on the property, but are near the property, say for example you are parked in an area where the general public does not usually go, or in an area where a lot of crime occurs, depending upon the totality of the circumstances, an officer may be able to demand an ID for suspicious activity. It only requires "reasonable suspicion" for someone to be detained and to require ID be shown.

How many of us park in unusual area near the tracks, near bridges, tunnels etc? Granted most police I have encountered usually just wave as they go by, but sometimes they could press the issue.

The above is true for California anyways.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

The BNSF Special agents have been patrolling Mojave to Bena for atleast 6 months. I 've seen them every where on line. Any where along the tracks from Tehachapi to Bena is either owned by the Railroad, a Rancher or is Private property. So not much can be done. Even the hill south of the south switch at Bealville is now off limits. No more sitting in the shade under the tree waiting for trains to drop down from, or climb up to Cliff.

However, I have an issue with being stopped while rail fanning between N.Mojave and Cameron. If your more than 25' away from the rail, then more than likely your on BLM land, which means as a tax payer I should have rights to be there. The reason the Railroads right always are about 25' from the edge of the rail is, if they want more right away then they must pay propert taxes on that land. So you bet they want no more right away then necessary. I'm no closer then any of the people on off road vehicle that ply up and down the area. Never seen a special agent bother them. Take out a camera and watch out.

Valleyman

SN711 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wigwag Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Keep in mind that unless the cop is citing you
> for
> > something, showing your ID is strictly
> voluntary!
> > Id be more worried about hackers. Police data
> > bases can get hacked by those looking to steal
> > peoples identities and the more data bases
> you're
> > on, the better the chance your ID may get
> stolen.
>
> That's not correct. If you are trespassing on the
> property (whether you knew it or not), they can
> demand your identification. That is whether they
> were going to cite you or not.
>
> For that matter, even if you are not on the
> property, but are near the property, say for
> example you are parked in an area where the
> general public does not usually go, or in an area
> where a lot of crime occurs, depending upon the
> totality of the circumstances, an officer may be
> able to demand an ID for suspicious activity. It
> only requires "reasonable suspicion" for someone
> to be detained and to require ID be shown.
>
> How many of us park in unusual area near the
> tracks, near bridges, tunnels etc? Granted most
> police I have encountered usually just wave as
> they go by, but sometimes they could press the
> issue.
>
> The above is true for California anyways.
>
> Gary
>
> This info was given to me by several practicing California attorneys. If you're committing a trespass, that would put you in violation (Ca penal code 369i, 369g, 602l, 555, etc). But if you're clearly on public property and in violation of nothing, any ID check is strictly voluntary. Otherwise, there must be a law broken for JUST refusing to show ID on public property.
One of the best things you can say to prevent giving out unwanted information is, "I cannot answer any of your questions without my attorney present."
Theres this little thing in the Constitution called the 5th Amendment and law enforcement is supposed to be sworn an oath to defend it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/16 15:39 by wigwag.

So let me get this straight...

I can't park here anymore ????

​Jay

---

---

---

Your correct! I believe Bealville road in the background is where the Original Poster to this thread was parked when ID by the BNSF cop. He was probably just off the paved section. UP claims this dirt road in on there property. 

Valleyman


lamta_jay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So let me get this straight...
>
> I can't park here anymore ????
>
> ​Jay

One aspect of this which probably needs underlining is why the name goes in the  database.

Once the officer tells you you're on  private property, and you've trespassed, that's a formal warning in most states. Your name/positive ID goes in the system to document you've been warned.

If you violate the warning a second time, some states will treat that as a Defiant Trespass / Aggravated Trespass etc. It's usually a more serious crime, and carries more fine or jail potential.  The idea is you've been warned, and now you've gone and done it again, showing contempt of the law.  It's similar to "standing your ground" and refusing to obey an officer's lawful instruction.

This isn't legal advice, of course, but you want to play your cards carefully if you're already in the book for that location.

Wigwag,
What the lawyers told you is probably correct most of the time. It can be a grey area and is not a slam dunk either way, if you are on public property. It is possible that enough factors together could exist that police would have the right to demand identification.

I would just suggest that if you are in that situation and an officer is demanding indetification to be careful in how you proceed.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

Pretty much between the tracks and the fence line is theirs, they didn't erect the fence
but whoever put it up did so to separate his property from theirs.

Out