Western Railroad Discussion > FRA Report on UP derailment June 3rd.

 May be old news, posting anyway...

  =1px !importantinShare   http://www.railwayage.com/media/k2/items/cache/073052a187569db0b9bec074c8af2ed9_L.jpg
From Railway Age.
 The Federal Railroad Administration on June 23, 2106 released its preliminary findings on the June 3 Oregon crude oil derailment and found at fault: bolts, brakes and Union Pacific.16 tank cars of a Union Pacific train carrying 96 carloads of Bakken crude derailed on June 3 in Mosier, Ore., en route from New Town, N.Dak. to a refinery in Tacoma, Wash.The FRA says its "investigation found that multiple lag bolts in this section of Union Pacific track were broken and sheared, leading to tie plates loosening from ties. The loosened tie plates allowed for the rails to be pushed outwards as trains moved across them, eventually resulting in an area of wide gauge, leading to the derailment."The FRA says it simulated braking of the derailed train, ONETU 02, and found if the train had been equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic (ECP) brakes "two fewer tank cars may have derailed, and one less tank car may have been punctured."The FRA concludes: "Union Pacific’s failure to maintain its track and track equipment resulted in the derailment. Broken and sheared lag bolts, while difficult to detect by hi-rail, are more detectable by walking inspection combined with indications of movement in the rail or track structure and/or uneven rail wear, and are critically important to resolve quickly."Local reaction continues to be critical of crude by rail in the region. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/16 11:49 by EL-SD45-3632.

So in a nut shell UP failed to maintain tracks only because there was no walking inspection.  So, what does the FRA want?  UP and other railroads using screw spikes on mainline tracks to do walking inspections where they are installed? 

Really what is in question is whether or not UP knew there could be a problem or if this simply wasn't anticipated.


Allen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/16 13:03 by bradleymckay.

bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So in a nut shell UP failed to maintain tracks
> only because there was no walking inspection. 
> So, what does the FRA want?  UP and other
> railroads using screw spikes on mainline tracks to
> do walking inspections where they are
> installed? 
>
> Really what is in question is whether or not UP
> knew there could be a problem or if this simply
> wasn't anticipated.
>
>
> Allen

freight railroads don't do walking inspection ... Amtrak and some regionals and transit agencies are only companies that do walking inspections ... i went into all this in your earlier thread on this derailment Allen ... and the hi-rail inspections aren't conducive with the use of the type of long hood hi-rail vehicles that are used ... these trucks hinder the front downward view needed to do a proper inspection ... when in a long hooded hi-rail vehicle you're looking 15-20 feet ahead of the truck when sitting in the seat ... now here's a kicker in hi-rail inspections that i find detrimental to a proper inspection ... under FRA RULES FOR INSPECTION a single inspector in the hi-rail can only inspect the track he's on but 2 inspectors in the vehicle can inspect 2 tracks but the adajacent track gets 1/2 A$$ inspection because the field side (outside) of the adjacent track being inspected can't be seen and it the same track is used for every inspection on the section then the adjacent track's field side isn't getting inspected at all ... the FRA doesn't specify alternating tracks on every other inspection .. an inspection loophole 

here's my replies on your thread Allen ...

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,4059370,4059506#msg-4059506



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/16 13:45 by Out_Of_Service.

The nine temporary slow orders on this line should have been a red flag there are problems.  I have not heard of a derailment caused by this but over time I can see where it could happen.  The picture of the two bolts show that you would not see the damage and the only visual you would have is the tie plates working their way out.  A lot to learn from this one.

did the report say when the last time m.o.w. was given main track authority for a track inspection on this particular section of track? 

66

Small video cameras mounted low on the front of the hi-rail, two in the middle looking out and one each on the outside looking in. It's not like the inspector has to steer the truck so he could spend a fair amount of time viewing the cameras on his laptop. 
I all my travels across the west, i have always seem to notice, when the tracks run close to the roadway, i tend to see a lot of spikes that have loosened and are sticking up. And it is not one here and there. It is a lot in a short distance. 
How many spikes have to be loose before a track crew has to come in to drive the spikes back in?

The comparison with spikes is interesting.  Spikes aren't intended to hold the rail on the tie vertically allowing the rail to "float" while holding the gauge?  How about these other fastening systems used on wooden ties... Are these lag bolts subject to more shear stress than a spike thru a tie plate?  

Sphogger

santafe49 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Small video cameras mounted low on the front of
> the hi-rail, two in the middle looking out and one
> each on the outside looking in. It's not like the
> inspector has to steer the truck so he could spend
> a fair amount of time viewing the cameras on his
> laptop. 
(snip)

That would seem like a classic artificial intelligence application. The cameras and low hanging brushes are used to calibrate the variation between actual and expected.  I'm surprised Sperry doesn't sell something like that.

 

Track inspection
I was taught the best inspection is walking, then motorcar followed by hi-rail.  If the gage is widening,you should see some movement on the ties from the plate moving.  Hard to see from a hi-rail at 25 MPH.

Mike Root
Madras, OR

Quoted from the press release: The FRA concludes: "Union Pacific’s failure to maintain its track and track equipment resulted in the derailment. Broken and sheared lag bolts, while difficult to detect by hi-rail, are more detectable by walking inspection combined with indications of movement in the rail or track structure and/or uneven rail wear, and are critically important to resolve quickly."

> "freight railroads don't do walking inspections ..."

I'm aware this is the case.  My comment was made more in jest than anything else.   Unless I'm missing something I'm not getting why the FRA is making it appear, off handedly, UP failed to perform a walking track inspection, in the quoted comment above, when none was required.  Was this section of track under a slow order??

The verbage state and federal agencies use on these press releases is at times baffling. 


Allen


 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/16 21:06 by bradleymckay.

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> freight railroads don't do walking inspection ...
> Amtrak and some regionals and transit agencies are
> only companies that do walking inspections

Wrong

> under FRA
> RULES FOR INSPECTION a single inspector in the
> hi-rail can only inspect the track he's on but 2
> inspectors in the vehicle can inspect 2 tracks but
> the adajacent track gets 1/2 A$$ inspection
> because the field side (outside) of the adjacent
> track being inspected can't be seen and it the
> same track is used for every inspection on the
> section then the adjacent track's field side isn't
> getting inspected at all ... the FRA doesn't
> specify alternating tracks on every other
> inspection .. an inspection loophole 

This is also wrong.


I would encourage anyone curious about inspection requirements to look at the FRA track safety standards, available via a simple
Google search.

Posted from iPhone

A couple thoughs and questions -- 

The Columbia River Gorge trackage has many miles of curves.  Were the lag screws only used in a couple places?  Or are there many miles of lag-screwed tie plates in the gorge?  

If lag screws have been used in many locations, then a lot of these locations should have similar problems, right?  The curve at Mossier isn't particularly unusual, I assume other curves of the same radius have the same track speed, and if they have the same lag screws, they should have the same problem.  

The sheared lag screw heads allowed the rails to move laterally when trains were going around the curve.  The outside rail if braking, the inside rail if accellerating?  

And there's plenty of trackworkers in the gorge, and plenty of sidings with plenty of train traffic.  

And track workers and train crews in sidings generally give each train a roll-by, right?  Hop down from the cab, stand out on the ballast and watch the power and loads roll by?  

So, if this all of my above assumptions are correct, then someone should have spotted the track moving out of gauge on a curve somewhere in the gorge before it resulted in a wreck.  

But, nobody did.  So, maybe the curve at Mossier is different than others, or maybe it's the only curve that had some charateristic of train braking + curvature or something.  Or a bad batch of lag screws.  

And, a follow up question -- the gorge track is paretty accessible in many places.  Has anyone gone out there and tested lag screw heads for soundness?  Just tap them lightly with a small hammer and they should make a different sound if they're intact vs. sheared at the head.  Seems that with all the fuss between the Mossier townfolk, the oil train foes, and etc., that someone would have tried this in a few places with semi-public access.  

Just curious, and I hope that the UP gets the lag screw problem figured out.  

Ted in OR


 

Wow, what an extremely useless post...

altoonafn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out_Of_Service Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > freight railroads don't do walking inspection
> ...
> > Amtrak and some regionals and transit agencies
> are
> > only companies that do walking inspections
>
> Wrong
>
> > under FRA
> > RULES FOR INSPECTION a single inspector in the
> > hi-rail can only inspect the track he's on but
> 2
> > inspectors in the vehicle can inspect 2 tracks
> but
> > the adajacent track gets 1/2 A$$ inspection
> > because the field side (outside) of the
> adjacent
> > track being inspected can't be seen and it the
> > same track is used for every inspection on the
> > section then the adjacent track's field side
> isn't
> > getting inspected at all ... the FRA doesn't
> > specify alternating tracks on every other
> > inspection .. an inspection loophole 
>
> This is also wrong.
>
>
> I would encourage anyone curious about inspection
> requirements to look at the FRA track safety
> standards, available via a simple
> Google search.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Just before a crossing in Texas.

---

portlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, what an extremely useless post...
>

Not useless at all. Altoonafn referenced where to find information. What more do you want?

MP555 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> portlander Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow, what an extremely useless post...
> >
>
> Not useless at all. Altoonafn referenced where to
> find information. What more do you want?

An actual answer or information. 

"I know why your cat is going to die in his sleep tonight. You should Google it so you know too...."


Essentially, if he's too lazy to post it, why should he expect us to do the work to find it?

portlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Essentially, if he's too lazy to post it, why
> should he expect us to do the work to find it?

Case in point as to why somebody made "Let me Google that for you".

MP555 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> portlander Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Essentially, if he's too lazy to post it, why
> > should he expect us to do the work to find it?
>
> Case in point as to why somebody made "Let me
> Google that for you".

Ahhh, I've used that many times myself. Usually in response to a simple question, not when trying to prove others wrong.

bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So in a nut shell UP failed to maintain tracks
> only because there was no walking inspection. 
> So, what does the FRA want?  UP and other
> railroads using screw spikes on mainline tracks to
> do walking inspections where they are
> installed? 
>
> Really what is in question is whether or not UP
> knew there could be a problem or if this simply
> wasn't anticipated.
>
>
> Allen

i never really answered your question Allen which is the UP was in compliance with the their vehiclee inspection ... no railroad is required to do a walking inspection ... trust me if Amtrak could do hi-rail inspections they would but they just run too many train in daylight hours hence the walking inspections ... Amtrak tried and experimented with a night hi-rail inspection for one week and the FRA nixed that ...and during that time was when the instructions on what can be and can't be inspected by single and double occupant vehicle inspections ... 

altoonafn Wrote: 
------------------------------------------------------- 
> Out_Of_Service Wrote: 
> -------------------------------------------------- 
> ----- 
> 
> > freight railroads don't do walking inspection 
> ... 
> > Amtrak and some regionals and transit agencies 
> are 
> > only companies that do walking inspections 
> 
> Wrong 
> 
> > under FRA 
> > RULES FOR INSPECTION a single inspector in the 
> > hi-rail can only inspect the track he's on but 
> 2 
> > inspectors in the vehicle can inspect 2 tracks 
> but 
> > the adajacent track gets 1/2 A$$ inspection 
> > because the field side (outside) of the 
> adjacent 
> > track being inspected can't be seen and it the 
> > same track is used for every inspection on the 
> > section then the adjacent track's field side 
> isn't 
> > getting inspected at all ... the FRA doesn't 
> > specify alternating tracks on every other 
> > inspection .. an inspection loophole  
> 
> This is also wrong. 

HATE TO BREAK HE NEWS TO YOU MR NOT SO KNOW IT ALL BUT THOSE INSTRUCTIONS ORDERS CANE FROM THE FRA INSPECTTTOR HIMSELF AND HIS BOSS THE REGIONAL DIRECTOR OF THE FRA so if you want to argue your point i suggest you go down to Washington,DC and state your arguement ... 

BTW HAVE YOU DONE ANY TRACK INSPECTION .EVER BESIDES YOUR LITTLE CHOO CHOO LAYOUT IN YOUR BASEMENT ???

i'll answer that ...NO !!!

YOU SHOULD STICK TO ALTOONA RAILFANNING ... THAT'S MORE YOUR RAILROAD EDUCATIONS LEVEL  ,,,

and it any freight railroads DO walking inspecions .... it's the EXCEPTION NOT THE RULE !!!

portlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MP555 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > portlander Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Essentially, if he's too lazy to post it, why
> > > should he expect us to do the work to find
> it?
> >
> > Case in point as to why somebody made "Let me
> > Google that for you".
>
> Ahhh, I've used that many times myself. Usually in
> response to a simple question, not when trying to
> prove others wrong.

don't sweat it port ... the only thing he proved is that he's CLUELESS ... some people like TOON need reinforcement and feel useless so they act out for attn" ...

ptroyal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just before a crossing in Texas.

as much as people get alarmed and think this kind of situation is a defect violation ,,, could be borderline but without knowing all the values i can't say for sure but i would venture to say it's within specs ...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/16 21:39 by Out_Of_Service.

https://www.fra.dot.gov/Elib/Document/3019

This is the current FRA track safety requirements.

Specifically, the inspection section, which begins on page 130, states that one inspector can inspect up to two tracks, and two inspectors can do four tracks, based on track center distance. It also requires each main to be traversed at least once every two weeks, and sidings at least monthly.

Walking inspections of some track components are required by the FRA as well, and the railroads do add their own walking inspections. Specifically, CSX was noted by the NTSB following the 2002 Auto Train derailment in Florida about its walking inspections of curves.

Posted from iPhone