Western Railroad Discussion > Event recorders

In view of the recent event in Texas, I have not seen any mention or information from the locomotive event recorders. Couple of images attached of a  "event recorder", really in my opinion there would not be much chance the recorders to survive an incident such as a few days ago. Some info may be recovered from trailing units or the DPU but will not indicate if the whistle had been sounded at the last crossing or the last crew alerter reset etc etc. The recorders are generally in the short nose of a locomotive and rather flimsy in construction and surrounded by flammable material etc. Certainly not like the "black box" on an aircraft that is generally in the most structurally tough portion of an aircraft. I'm not in favor of in cab cameras, although wonder about voice recorders providing any information of the crew alertness etc,  My thoughts and prayers to the crew persons involved in Texas.
Doug

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I have always wondered why the recorders are not placed in the rear of the locomotive car-body so they would be more likely to survive a major event. While they might get information off trailing units the lead unit would have the most prevalent data for an investigation.
 

hoggerdoug Wrote:
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> In view of the recent event in Texas, I have not
> seen any mention or information from the
> locomotive event recorders.


The NTSB mentioned in their press conference yesterday they are looking for them, but I haven't seen anything about them being located yet.

Pump

Those are not the current crash-worthy event recorders. The new ones are huge and look more like aircraft units. Any locomotive with PTC gear probably has the current event recorder gear as well.

Nowadays it (speed, throttle or DB position, main res, brake pipe, tail end and brake cylinder pressure etc. etc. etc.) is all available in almost real-time for a co. officer to see upon logging into a web URL.
I would assume that Wi-Tronix may be the RR industry's most popular right now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/16 14:29 by xcnsnake.

So what is the deal with override toggle being pulled up by string???
 

ActionMike Wrote:
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> So what is the deal with override toggle being
> pulled up by string???
>  

It is a seal to prevent tampering or to show evidence of tampering if the seal is broken. The wire is tied between the switch and the case so it can not more and then a piece of low melt metal is melted on the tied wire. Today, better seals are available that are easier to place and more reliable without having to deal with possible lead contamination. 

That's not a string, but rather a seal. You have to cut the seal to drop the toggle switch, which may or may not be spring loaded. It is a positive indication if messed with. The seals we put on signal equipment after an incident are numbered and their location are recorded. This might be the same case here.

ActionMike Wrote:
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> So what is the deal with override toggle being
> pulled up by string???
>  

    String is made of strands of thread. This is obviously wire with a 'seal' afixed so that tampering is evident.

Here is a picture of a modern style of event data recorder.  This is from UP8000, a GE ES44/C45AC built in 2012.

Edited to add:  These are located in the nose area in front of the engineer opposite the toilet compartment. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/16 16:37 by imrl.

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imrl Wrote:
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> Here is a picture of a modern style of event data
> recorder.  This is from UP8000, a GE ES44/C45AC
> built in 2012.

That's what ours look like too. They also have strips of orange reflective tape on them, presumably to make them easier to locate in the event of a wreck. I didn't have a pic. Thanks for posting it.

Wonder what "crash worthy" test has been done on the newer event recorders as pictured in above previous post??  Doug

That was my question, whether the DPU'S were in sync with the lead.

Those look very much like the event and voice recorders in aircraft.. same color container. Someone suggested the recorders be placed in the rear of the locomotive like they are in aircraft, but since the are operated in either direction, a central location might be better. Also, the forces acting on a recorder in either an aircraft or train accident are less likely to render it unusable than immersion in salt water which even though the units are sealed, any damage while not enough to damage the recordings will allow salt water inside that can cause problems. I recall the Egypt Air crash off the New England coast that dove straight into the water. Both recorders were recovered relatively intact and with usable information.

Posted from Android

In imrl's picture above, the recorder on the right is the true event recorder. It records all of the FRA mandated parameters, as well as railroad option parameters. The recorder on the left is the CHMM (crash hardened memory module). This records additional parameters and PTC info.

I would say by far, Wabtec is the most popular manufacturer of event recorders (and PTC equipment too). However, NS is beginning to use CRM event recorders. That is still sort of under development.

DC

I still don't get why they are in the nose?    While it is true that 50% of the time any given diesel loco is running in reverse, wouldn't it be a safe assumption that an extremely high percentage of the leading/controlling locos are running nose first?  Would you even find a leading loco running at track speed with the long hood leading?  So why aren't they in the middle or rear of the loco?  Aircraft recorders are in the tail for a very good reason,  the tail usually hits last!

Best location would probably be behind the electrical cabinet in the a separate fire proof cabinet not accessable from the cab.
Looks like that would be the least damaged area of any locomotive.

DuneCoon Wrote:
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> In imrl's picture above, the recorder on the right
> is the true event recorder. It records all of the
> FRA mandated parameters, as well as railroad
> option parameters. The recorder on the left is the
> CHMM (crash hardened memory module). This records
> additional parameters and PTC info.
>
> I would say by far, Wabtec is the most popular
> manufacturer of event recorders (and PTC equipment
> too). However, NS is beginning to use CRM event
> recorders. That is still sort of under
> development.
>
> DC

Actually the recorder on the left is the video recorder.  

-Brian