Western Railroad Discussion > It Really Looks Horrible, Stupid, and Shoddy!

In some recent posts of the Napa Valley Railroad (NVR)photos have been posted showing a boxcar coupled between their two FA units. It is considered by many to be one of the nation’s premier tourist operations. It has been in operation over twenty-five years.
I do not know the purpose of the boxcar. Nevertheless, NVR should have dug down into their pockets and purchased an appropriate piece of equipment for the purpose. If it must be operated between the units, they should have purchased a B Unit. If it could be operated behind the units, they should have purchased a baggage car.
The boxcar looks just plan horrible, stupid, and shoddy.
ALLEN

Are you going to pay for the B Unit Allen? They already owned the boxcar. It was free. I agree that it looks a bit goofy, yet it is functional. It's a back up to the genertator car that is already in the train. On hot summer days, the generators tend to have trouble keeping up with the demand for onboard power and AC. You can't have it behind the locomotive becuae it would block one of the two observation decks. And with all honesty, do you really think that 99% of the people who ride the train have any clue or care if there is a box car between locomotives? Stop thinking like a railfan and start thinking like people trying to run a railroad. It's not all about spit and polish. What's onboard the train and the experience, that's all that matters to the paying public. Good grief. 

UP9000
Former NVR Employee

I agree with UP9000, 99.9% of people that ride the train aren't Phoamy McPhoamersons, and they really don't care what is between the two locomotives.  The train runs, it looks fine, it gets the customers through the pretty country side, and they enjoy their wine.  If krm152 wants to purchase a 'B' unit for the NV Wine train, I am sure that they wouldn't mind at all!

I wonder if Amtrak would be willing to sell a classic, two door baggage car to the Wine Train people?  One side could be the generator, the other side could be a rolling kitchen or wine display, etc. 

It would look wonderful between the classic, updated power units

UP9000 and sp8192 obviously believe that the boxcar is fine; expediency prevails over aesthetics. If this was some backwoods, shoestring operation, I would not have even raised the issue. However, NVR is supposed to be one of the premier tourist operations in the nation. I would certainly expect NVR to give proper attention to esthetics.

On the other side of the nation, RJ Corman operates My Old Kentucky Dinner Train (pre-dates NVR) with a pair of FP7s for esthetics; one GP would suffice for expediency. Thus, the concept of providing attention to esthetic detail is not from a railfan dream but from a proven business success.

ALLEN

krm152 Wrote:
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>Thus, the concept of providing attention to esthetic detail is not
> from a railfan dream but from a proven business success.

​You're making a mistaken assumption that there's a correlation in your example between asthetic detail and business success....

Rick Selby
Redmond, WA
Pacific Northwest RPM

RAS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> krm152 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >Thus, the concept of providing attention to
> esthetic detail is not
> > from a railfan dream but from a proven business
> success.
>
> ​You're making a mistaken assumption that
> there's a correlation in your example between
> asthetic detail and business success....

In no way did I imply that Corman's success resulted from attention to aesthetic detail.  Rather, I pointed out that my ideas were based on this successful operation that gave strong consideration to aesthetic detail; they were not simply on based "railfan" considerations.

You misinterpreted my comment, and you misspelled aesthetic as “asthetic” in your comment.
ALLEN

You both misspelled aesthetic! 

     So, krm, now you can pony up the money not only for the car but the paint job too. You are going to do the paint job yourself aren't you ???

This thread is giving me azmuh!

Out

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
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>      So, krm, now you can pony up the money
> not only for the car but the paint job too. You
> are going to do the paint job yourself aren't you
> ???
I believe NVR has the funds to purchase and paint the equipment.  
ALLEN

Are there any FPB locomotives available for purchase? Because if NVR gets an EMD F7B, someone is going to complain about that as well...

I am aware of the two FPBs at the Grand Canyon Railway, are there any others out there? My quick web search came back with conflicting information.

Remember, the people who own the railroad are not railroad people. It's a hotel company. They know nothing and do not care about railroad traditions. They do care about making money. And they are pouring a ton of money into the railroad. They have another train in the works, so that is far more important right now than where the generators are on the big train. I am not saying that an FPA4B wouldn't look awesome. I'm just saying that there are reasons for what a company does. Also remember that this is not a TOURIST railroad. They don't have volunteers. They have a rather larger overhead when it comes to people who make that train and now trains, run. This company has been good enough to increase pay for personnel, which the old regime was never very willing to do. Paying the employees what they deserve is also far more important that the trains looks. As long as people show up to ride, the train goes clickity clack down the track, and the employees get paid, that's what really matters. The world does not revolve around what looks best in a photograph. 

Best Regards, 
Jamie

callum_out Wrote:
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> This thread is giving me azmuh!
>
> Out

Me 2,Out. Where's my enhailr!

krm152 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In some recent posts of the Napa Valley Railroad
> (NVR)photos have been posted showing a boxcar
> coupled between their two FA units. It is
> considered by many to be one of the nation’s
> premier tourist operations. It has been in
> operation over twenty-five years.
> I do not know the purpose of the boxcar.
> Nevertheless, NVR should have dug down into their
> pockets and purchased an appropriate piece of
> equipment for the purpose. If it must be operated
> between the units, they should have purchased a B
> Unit. If it could be operated behind the units,
> they should have purchased a baggage car.
> The boxcar looks just plan horrible, stupid, and
> shoddy.
> ALLEN
Holy Cow! What a fuss-budget! Why do you care? I'm sure glad that you're not my neighbor.
Bill Pyper
Salem, OR
 

Allen, we'll forward your tirade to the Management of the Napa Valley Railroad. I'm sure they will think highly of you for it

wjpyper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> krm152 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In some recent posts of the Napa Valley
> Railroad
> > (NVR)photos have been posted showing a boxcar
> > coupled between their two FA units. It is
> > considered by many to be one of the nation’s
> > premier tourist operations. It has been in
> > operation over twenty-five years.
> > I do not know the purpose of the boxcar.
> > Nevertheless, NVR should have dug down into
> their
> > pockets and purchased an appropriate piece of
> > equipment for the purpose. If it must be
> operated
> > between the units, they should have purchased a
> B
> > Unit. If it could be operated behind the units,
> > they should have purchased a baggage car.
> > The boxcar looks just plan horrible, stupid,
> and
> > shoddy.
> > ALLEN
> Holy Cow! What a fuss-budget! Why do you care? I'm
> sure glad that you're not my neighbor.
> Bill Pyper
> Salem, OR
>
I was simply expressing my opinion abour NVR from my observations on Trainorders.  You knew I had a negative opinion about something from the topic of the thread. Since you obviously do not like negative opinions, the only reason you could have had for looking at the thread was to make a sarcastic comment.
Thankfully, I do not live anywhere near you as I could not stand the odor.
ALLEN
   

PHall Wrote:
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> Allen, we'll forward your tirade to the Management
> of the Napa Valley Railroad. I'm sure they will
> think highly of you for it

Actually, NVR should appreciate my opinion because it is an honest unbiased view. My suggestion that they replace the box car with a B Unit or baggage car, depending on where they wish to place it in the consist, would improve the looks of their operation immensely. Anyone telling NVR that the boxcar is fine is really doing them a disservice.
ALLEN

 

I'm really liking this thread!  Much more entertaining than some beyond boring class 1 tier 4 locomotive bfd nonsense. Finally worth the membership price!

I've ridden this train a few times now and enjoy it. I think Allen has a valid point. Aesthetics do matter. I don't want to buy an ugly car and I don't want to stay in an ugly hotel. I also don't what to eat at an unattractive restaurant when I'm spending $100+ a pop. Rolling or not. Most consumers would agree I think, and while they my not know if a Box car sandwiched between two locomotives is appropriate, they will know if it looks proper or not.