Western Railroad Discussion > Adoption of BNSF Z Q P and S symbols

At some point after the BN and Santa Fe merged, the railroad separated its intermodal trains into four classes - Z (Priority), Q (Guaranteed), P (Premium) and S (Doublestack), in that order of priority. Each of these classes had their own price points. My question is: When was this system adopted?

Fred

ffrailey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At some point after the BN and Santa Fe merged,
> the railroad separated its intermodal trains into
> four classes - Z (Priority), Q (Guaranteed), P
> (Premium) and S (Doublestack), in that order of
> priority. Each of these classes had their own
> price points. My question is: When was this system
> adopted?

If I remember correctly from going around the BN system cutting over TSS (Santa Fe IS), it was already so at the time of the merger.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I remember correctly from going around the BN
> system cutting over TSS (Santa Fe IS), it was
> already so at the time of the merger.

Seems very likely just from my simple memory of SF running a pair of Q trains from Fort Worth to LA circa 1994, first through Brownwood and then later on the UP from Sweetwater. I believe these started with the opening of Alliance that same year.

JG

Santa Fe was already using five classes of intermodal service prior to the merger.  The numbered trains were the equivalent of the Z's of today, and there were far fewer of them.  By the summer of 1997, I think a lot of the Q trains got elevated to Z train status when they went to longer train symbols.  I'm looking at some old lineups from September 1997 and many of the 'new' Z-trains had city pairs previously used by Q trains.

Some old consist notes of mine...

July and August 1995:
SALLA1-25
QLAAL1-27
1-198-28
SHOLB1-27
PLACH1-29
THOLA1-28
QNYLA9-10
PBHLA1-11
QLAWS8-10

As an aside, I don't remember the T trains very much.  Didn't T stand for Trailers?

David, I went thru your and Rob Carlson's Altamont Press timetables.  Here's what I've got.

Altamont Press's California Region Railfan Timetable #1 issue April, 1990 edition has number-based Santa Fe symbols like #199.

#2 January 15, 1991 edition shows number-based scheduled freight symbols.  It also has unit & non-scheduled symbols, with the example given as Q-BA RI 1 23= Quality network (tofc/cofc) BArstow-RIchmond 1st section, origin 23rd day of the month.  This part also has I= Intermodal and S= double stack containers, no Z.  Note the origin-destination codes are all 2-letter codes, not the current 3-letter codes.

#3 and #4 I'm missing.  

#5 March 5, 1994 edition has letter symbols like the unit & non-scheduled symbols in #2.  It also has UPS train symbols, example 9 199 04= highest priority, Chicago- Northern California, origin 4th day of the month.  It has Q= Guaranteed tofc/cofc; P= Premium tofc/cofc; T= Regular tofc/cofc; S= Intermodal double stacks.  Z= light engine/waycar.

#6 March 11, 1995 edition has the same symbols as #5.
#7 I'm missing.
#3 Rocky Mountain Region Timetable, January 14, 1996, has BN symbols of mostly numbers.

#4 Pacific Northwest Region Timetable, September 22, 1996 has the same symbols as #3 Rocky Mountain.AT&SF-BN merger into BNSF is December 31, 1996.

#8 California Region Timetable, March 8, 1997 has BNSF- Santa Fe symbols just like #5, including Q, P, T and S for intermodal, UPS train symbols, and 2-letter origin-destination codes.  It also has BNSF- Burlington Northern symbols, with 3-letter origin-destination codes.  It uses the same Q, P, T and S for intermodal as Santa Fe does.  Z is still light engine/waycar.  The example they give is Q-CHCSEH9-08A= Train Type [Q], Origin Ramp [CHC, even though most 3-letter codes are stations without intermodal ramps], Destination Ramp [SEH= Seattle Hub], For train dispatching [9], Date [08] and Alternate Train Identifier [A].  

#9 California Region Timetable, March 14, 1998 has BNSF symbols, like the BNSF-Burlington Northern symbols in #8, with the same example.  Intermodal symbols are Z= Priority UPS Intermodal; Q= Guaranteed Intermodal; P= Premium Intermodal and S= Double Stacks.

#10 March 13, 1999 does not have the Q symbol for intermodals.  Possibly an accidental omission?
#11 I'm missing.
#12 March 10, 2001 has Z= Priority UPS- LTL Intermodal; Q= Guaranteed Service Intermodal; P= Premium Service Intermodal; S= Intermodal Stacks.

#13 to #18 2002 to 2007 symbols are like #12.
#19 2008 I can't find.
#8 Northwest Region Timetable, February, 2008 has symbols like #12.
#20 California Region Timetable, March, 2009, P symbol is dropped. 

There are more exact sources for the evolution of BNSF symbols, but this is what I have.

mapboy

Edit- re-spaced the lines.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/16 16:32 by mapboy.

Hello Fred,

I believe you'll find that their use of those symbols was phased in over many years from the late(?) '80s through the early/mid-1990s.  I seem to recall that ATSF already had multiple rate & service levels for their intermodal traffic in the late '80s, with that basic framework evolving / being "fine-tuned" through the early '90s.  

To pick a moment in time as an example, a TSP Bulletin dated Sept 1, 1993 lists these train types for intermodal (high priority top / lowest at bottom):
Q = Guaranteed TOFC (numbered trains such as 198, 893, etc. were included in this category even though they didn't carry the "Q" symbol).  
P = Premium TOFC
T = Regular TOFC / COFC
S = Stack

Note that the Z symbol at that time was still used for light engine moves.  
 
So by 1993 it seems they already had the basic system in place that you mentioned, but with slightly different designations & categories (Q, P, T, S vs. Z, Q, P, S that you mentioned).  So perhaps the answer is that the system (or "concept") was adopted in the late '80s / early '90s but the specific train designations and price levels were refined over time, with the "Z" and other designations you listed showing up sometime in the mid-90s.

Hope that's helpful.

Take care,

Mark



    

 ffrailey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At some point after the BN and Santa Fe merged,
> the railroad separated its intermodal trains into
> four classes - Z (Priority), Q (Guaranteed), P
> (Premium) and S (Doublestack), in that order of
> priority. Each of these classes had their own
> price points. My question is: When was this system
> adopted?
>
> Fred

Fred, I believe it was just after your amazing 24 hours on the Santa Fe article. I hired out July 14, 1997. They symbols changed July 01, 1997 if I recall. 

Thanks to all for your help. I believe the particular answer I am looking for would be 1997. Funny how time slips away . . .

Fred

Huh. WillieB wins the prize. What does he get for playing? Nothing? No one laughs at his jokes anymore, either.

Posted from iPhone

July 4 to be exact.

Posted from iPhone

I believe the former Santa Fe lines cut over to the new symbols in July 1997, but the former BN lines changed earlier.  We photographed trains on the Transcon and Raton Pass on our June 1997 road trip with these symbols (among others).
1-799-04
8-199-04
HDVBA1-05
HKCBA4-02
MBAMC1-05
MKCBA3-04
QBHSB3-26
QWSLA1-03
SCHRI1-03
SLBCH5-04

On the former BN lines, we saw trains with these symbols:
H-LAUNTW1-20
H-MEMPAS1-11
H-NTWKCM1-08
H-PASKCM1-10
M-HVRPAS4-21
M-LAUDEN1-17
P-CHCSEH1-22
P-SEAMEM1-16
S-SEACHC1-22
S-TACCHC1-21
Z-CHCPTL3-22
Z-PTLKCM1-10
Z-SEHCHC1-22

On July 4, 1997 back in Southern California, we shot these symbols
Q-LACALT1-03
V-MCILAC1-30
Q-NYCLAC1-02
L-SCA0101-02