Western Railroad Discussion > Maybe OT: NHTSA blesses Tesla autopilot

The Wall Street Journal has an article today about the follow up to a 2015 crash involving a Tesla and a truck. The Tesla, operating on autopilot (with the driver apparently watching a video) crashed into the side of a truck which was crossing the path of the Tesla. Preliminary and confirmed information pointed to the tesla's radar not discerning the truck against the sky, until it was too late to take evasive action. Or, stop.. The article said the driver had earlier facebooked a video of himself watching a video while operating at high speed in the autopilot mode.

The National Highway Transportation Satety Administration declined to label the incident an equipment defect. Instead, NTHSA cited driver inattention. The National Transportation Safety Board is also investigating, and has not released conclusions yet.

NHTSA concluded that vehicles operating on autopilot should have features which require active engagement,exactly like an alerter or dead man's pedal. Every few seconds, the person in the driver's seat needs to acknowledge the system is engaged. Practically speaking, that puts a huge nail strip in the path of driverless truck convoys.

The Germans are experimenting with lidar, which is said to combine scanning lasers with radar to detect and map threats in the roadway ahead. I can see that being a huge opportunity for the railroads. Tying it into GPS, with right of way bench marks in their ever lasting efforts to go to zero on board crew members.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> ... NHTSA concluded that vehicles operating on
> autopilot should have features which require
> active engagement,exactly like an alerter or dead
> man's pedal. Every few seconds, the person in the
> driver's seat needs to acknowledge the system is
> engaged. Practically speaking, that puts a huge
> nail strip in the path of driverless truck
> convoys...

Those onerous government regulations again!   Trucking lobby vs. railroad lobby- we'll see who wins.  John Q. Public?

mapboy

I once listened to a safety expert.  Every safety device can lead to unsafe practices relying on the  safety device.  There is a very comon example I think we all know.

Bob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/17 16:47 by robj.

robj  good quote and so true.  An interesting read that examples this is "Children of the Magenta".  This article explains why the airliner crashed at LAX when seemingly a normal landing was happening. Too much dependance on automation. While PTC seems to be an answer to avoidance of tragedy, I wonder how it too can be a "false sense of safety"    endmrw0120172151

I believe lidar is part of many autonomous vehicle systems... They tested some here in Mojave several years ago that included lidar.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

MojaveBill Wrote:
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> I believe lidar is part of many autonomous vehicle
> systems... They tested some here in Mojave several
> years ago that included lidar.

I didn't use the "lidar" term, but Google's self-driving cars pre and post "Waymo" all have that big dome on top of the roof which houses laser sensors which can generate real time 3D "map" of the immediate surroundings. Would be interesting if that initial work done in Mojave ended up on the Google cars.

No such big dome on top of Teslas.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NHTSA concluded that vehicles operating on
> autopilot should have features which require
> active engagement,exactly like an alerter or dead
> man's pedal. Every few seconds, the person in the
> driver's seat needs to acknowledge the system is
> engaged. Practically speaking, that puts a huge
> nail strip in the path of driverless truck
> convoys.

If you're referring to another thread you started earlier, on what Peloton Technology is working on, their system still requires a driver in each truck in the convoy, especially for steering. The company's main goal is not necessarily driverless, but saving fuel by driving the trucks closer together, with the lead driver responsible for accelerating/braking the entire convoy. As I said before, I like what they're doing... but I'm not totally sold on the idea yet.

To spell it out, their technology is supposed to alleviate the dangers of lack of reaction time when trucks are close together, but in exchange, save fuel on the entire truck convoy using the ol' racing trick of "drafting."

NHTSA doesn't really bless the Tesla autopilot, in my opinion. It simply sides with common sense, telling drivers to pay attention. I don't see any debate about driverless trains in this ruling alone... nothing to see here.