Steam & Excursion > PRR. 1361 at Steamtown

Monday 8/27, visited Steamtown shops today, some up to date shots of PRR. 1361 before she leaves for Altoona in pieces, which won't be for some time according to Steamtown personnel.

Ed K. cp Laurel Run

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Ed K.

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Still shocking and sad to me that this project could go so far awry after the loco was in running condition back in the '80s.

davew833 Wrote:
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> Still shocking and sad to me that this project
> could go so far awry after the loco was in running
> condition back in the '80s.


Dave,

It has been stated many times....when she ran in the 80's, it was a "slap it together" deal, just to make it run. Everything that is wrong with the engine didn't happen on the last trip in the 80's!

I guess I have problems with this, as the guys who restored Denver and Rio Grande Western #315 did so outdoors, without the benefit of millions of dollars, massive machinery, etc. And she was out of service long before 1361 quit. The restorations started approximately the same time. Before you tell me that 315 was in better shape, keep in mind her entire tender and frame were replaced too. 1361 still looks like she did when I last saw her in 2001. Sure the 315 is a smaller engine, but hey, they steamed her out of the Durango roundhouse for the first time in 57 years, she is alive.

Just make sure that every part is accounted for on both ends of the move! Two hundred boxes labeled "1:1 Scale PRR K4 Steam Locomotive Parts" will only attract souvenir hunters.

When I was little, we moved rather frequently and my Dad had the habit of labeling boxes with the exact content. His dad was the same way. At one time or another, both of them had labeled a box "Trains" and not a one of them never showed up at the new home. I got wise to it and, the next time, all of my train boxes were labeled "Bug Collection". I had twelve boxes of "bugs". I accounted for the weight by claiming all the bugs were in glass display cases. "So be careful with those crickets! Jiminy!"

I never lost any trains.

While I was in the Navy, I used a number system on the boxes or hauled everything myself. My belongings always arrived at a new home port intact.

The Navy wouldn't ship bugs.

-Richard
HG Tower

In the "here we go again" department...

Why the move?

I thought the last crew which was performing
repairs to the K4 was moving along quite nicely
until they discovered a problem that was missed
from day one, namely the thin roofing and poorly
designed, or should I say, currently unacceptable
number and /or spacing of the staybolts. Obviously
these types of issues and similar made repair of
this larger engine much more difficult then the
smaller and simpler (though impressive) narrow
guage engine. Anyway, back to the question, is
it expected that a different crew will do a better
job then the last crew whose work was presumably
only interupted by a missed, albeit major, design
and wear and tear issue?

/Mitch

I look forward to the day the BOD finally get enough guts to rid the current situation / problem and put a responsible individual in charge of this K4 project that can Git er done without making all kinds of promises / excuses year after year after year of why it isn't done.

Tom

It is amazing to me, that we can send men to the moon, and bring them back again alive...but after eleven years, and nearly 2-million dollars, we can't repair a 1918 steam locomotive that last ran in 1988. I guess I'm missing something. Keystone1

IMHO this poor project has gotten more than its share of critical reviews (deservedly and from yours truly) and further critisisms (however well deserved) won't serve any useful purpose.
Hopefully the pieces will all get back "home" to Altoona and be properly put in a secured location so that if at some future date a renewed effort is made to finish the job the parts will be there.
And also, if another attempt is made let's hope that an accomplished professional mainline steam restoration specialist is hired and put TOTALLY in charge and EVERYONE else is kept COMPLETELY out of it????
One can hope.
Ross Rowland

The whole story of the '80s "restoration" has been rehashed numerous times here over the years- I didn't mean to open that can of worms again. I'm just saying it's depressing to see #1361 still sitting in pieces.

Far from being critical, I was asking why the project
was being moved as I had heard the last group was
moving along quite nicely. The stumbling block was
not of their doing, rather a design flaw which went
unrecognized (wear and tear of the roofing and improper
spacing and/or amount of staybolts to meet current
requirements).

So, again, it would appear the issue was not with the
current restoration group, rather a shortage of cash. So,
why move it out of the shop and into a museum shed and risk
loss of parts, expense of the move, and loss of the current
restoration labor?

Well Ross, you said it very well! Amen, Amen! By the way, Remember The Model Railroad shop in Piscataway? I've spoken to you there on occasion. Lived in North Plainfield at the time.
Ed K. cp Laurel Run

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> It is amazing to me, that we can send men to the
> moon, and bring them back again alive...but after
> eleven years, and nearly 2-million dollars, we
> can't repair a 1918 steam locomotive that last ran
> in 1988. I guess I'm missing something.


For the money that was spent on the Apollo program (not to mention the skilled manpower), they probably could have restored not only 1361, but all the other steamers the PRR saved, in about a two-year span.

What I want to know is, how did the professional engineer on the project not see the issue RE the staybolt spacing and crownsheet thickness?

I know what you mean 5711. I was an Army Brat and we lost a quite a few things over the years though we didn't notice it right away.


5711 Wrote:
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> Just make sure that every part is accounted for on
> both ends of the move! Two hundred boxes labeled
> "1:1 Scale PRR K4 Steam Locomotive Parts" will
> only attract souvenir hunters.
>
> When I was little, we moved rather frequently and
> my Dad had the habit of labeling boxes with the
> exact content. His dad was the same way. At one
> time or another, both of them had labeled a box
> "Trains" and not a one of them never showed up at
> the new home. I got wise to it and, the next
> time, all of my train boxes were labeled "Bug
> Collection". I had twelve boxes of "bugs". I
> accounted for the weight by claiming all the bugs
> were in glass display cases. "So be careful with
> those crickets! Jiminy!"
>
> I never lost any trains.
>
> While I was in the Navy, I used a number system on
> the boxes or hauled everything myself. My
> belongings always arrived at a new home port
> intact.
>
> The Navy wouldn't ship bugs.
>
> -Richard
> HG Tower

I was looking at the Horseshoe Curve Chapter NRHS website:

http://www.trainweb.org/horseshoecurve-nrhs/k4_background.htm

which has many photos of the 1985-'87 restoration of #1361 and lists Doyle McCormack as "the project expert directing the restoration." There are also several photos of him working on the project. This corresponds with my memory of TRAINS magazine coverage of the restoration, and Doyle's involvement at the time. What I don't understand is the disparity between Doyle's impeccable record with the restoration/maintenance of #4449, CP #2816, and associated restoration projects, and the apparently-shoddy, even unsafe, "slapped together" restoration of PRR #1361. How much was Doyle really involved? I find it hard to believe any restoration he was heavily involved in as the project expert was done so poorly.

1361 should have been left on display. At least she was in one piece .