Steam & Excursion > 3751 schedule change again

Somehow I missed this although it was mentioned in the previous thread. Not only has there been a schedule change to the 3751's trip to Arizona, the number of nights on board are now one less for one way passengers if I'm reading it correctly. The cost was already high to begin with. And I doubt there will be any reduction in price for one less nights accommodation? Further, I see departure from LA is now 7A. How nice of them to do this. That's a pretty early wake up call for those of us staying with friends nowhere near downtown. I doubt my friend is going to want to get up at 5A to drive me downtown. Just wondering how anyone else already booked on this feel about these changes? I wonder what the reason is for scrapping the overnight at Barstow. That seemed like a more reasonable distance to travel in one day. My guess is BNSF didn't want the train parked at or near their yard. Probably some liability issue or some such. Lastly, I've had no communication from T&T regarding this. I only just checked the web site to see what was written about the "provisional approval" and noticed the schedule change.

THE NEW REVISED ITINERARY AS OF JANUARY 20
Saturday May 12: National Train Day. Our charter train and the Santa Fe 3751 will be on display at Los Angeles Union Station for all to view and photograph.

Day 1 Sunday May 13: Los Angeles to Parker, Arizona via Cajon Pass on the BNSF mainline. This will be a very long day covering 337 Miles. We will depart from Los Angeles 7:00AM with an estimated arrival in Parker at 7:00PM. After departing Barstow we cross the Mojave Desert on the BNSF mainline as far as Cadiz. Here our train will switch off to the Arizona and California Railroad for the run to Parker. Non Pullman passengers will be transfered to nearby lodging and Pullman passengers will stay onboard.

Day 2 Monday May 14: : Parker to Williams 256 Miles. First leg will be Parker to Matthie on the Arizona and California Railroad. Second leg will be Matthie to Williams on the BNSF Peavine line. At Williams non Pullman passengers will transfer to local hotels and Pullman passengers will stay onboard. Depart Parker 9:30AM, depart Congress 3:30PM, and arrive Williams 7:00PM. A special option is available to pick up additional passengers at Congress, Arizona which is 7 miles north of Wickenburg. This option also includes a charter motor coach transfer from both Phoenix and Wickenburg to Congress to board the train for the ride north to Williams. Upon arrival in William motor coach transfers back to Wickenburg and Phoenix. Also if there is enough demand we will provide a motor coach from Phoenix-Wickenburg to Parker to arrive in time to board our train.

Day 3 Tuesday May 15: Williams to Grand Canyon Round Trip 127 Miles. Doublehead with the CB&Q 4960 on the Grand Canyon Railroad . Option to for passengers to stay overnight at the South Rim and then ride the Grand Canyon's regular excursion train back to Williams on May 16 . Our train will depart Williams at 8:15AM arriving at the South Rim at 11:15AM. We then depart the Grand Canyon at 4:00PM and return to Williams at 7:00PM. Non Pullman passengers transfer to local hotels and Pullman passengers are offered the option to stay onboard in Williams.

Day 4 Wednesday May 16: Layover day in Williams to service the steam locomotive and train. Also our train and the ATSF 3751 will be on display for the public. Pullman passengers with eastbound one-way tickets will detrain this morning. Those Pullman passengers with roundtrip tickets may spend the night onboard if you choose or transfer to local lodging for one night, at your own expense. Pullman passengers with westbound one-way tickets may board the train in the afternoon, after it is serviced and cleaned. Sightseeing options are available today.

Day 5 Thursday May 17: Full day doubleheaded excursion being planned on the BNSF Peavine Line using the ATSF 3751 and CBQ 4960. This excursion will run south out of Williams and may turn on the wye at Drake before arriving back in Williams. We are still making the final plans with the railroad. Pullman Sleeping Car passengers holding roundtrip tickets from Los Angeles are welcome to join us today at no additional cost if they like.

Day 6 Friday May 18: Williams to Parker on the BNSF and Arizona & California Railroads, a total of 256 miles. A special option is available for local and Wickenburg folks to board our charter motor coaches for the ride up to Williams and and ride our train southbound to Congress which is 7 miles north of Wickenburg , then return to your starting point Phoenix on our buses. The train will Depart Williams 10:00AM, depart Congress 2:45PM and arrive Parker at 7:30PM. Non Pullman passengers will transfer to nearby lodging and Pullman passengers will stay onboard.

Day 7 Saturday May 19 Parker to Los Angeles running on the Arizona & California and BNSF railroads for a total of 337 miles. Depart Parker 7 :00AM arrive Los Angeles about 7:00 PM.

Thanks for keeping up on this. It does make for a long day. I was planning to take the SW Chief into LA that morning and detrain at Fullerton if it was late. With this, we now have a very early departure which means an expensive night in LA for some of us coming from the east.

Notice too a possible extra trip down the Peavine with a double-header and a turn at Drake. That is what they are planning to do to make up for the day removed at Barstow. I'm up for that as long as I don't have to pay extra. BTW, in 2002, the trip from LA to Williams spent the first night in Needles. IIRC it was late and after dark when it arrived.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/12 07:50 by Cumbresfan.

Funny,

The Central Coast Chapter's excursion page still outlines the trip with the Phoenex leg. I know TUT is the agent, but I'm suprised the trip sponsor's page hasn't been updated.

I'm waiting with check in hand once this gets sorted out.

Dave

I'm waiting with check in hand once this gets sorted out.

IIRC, last year's trip in early June up the CA highline wasn't totally confirmed until the end of April. My CC is going to be charged for the remainder of the trip in three weeks so I'm hoping things are firm by then.

According to the Trains & Travel website,
as of today, Jan. 25, 2012, the train will
leave LAUPT at 9 am on Monday, May 14.
Arrival at Parker is estimated to be at 9 pm.

Please keep checking the T & T website
for any further updates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/12 22:03 by Margaret_SP_fan.

Arrival at Parker is estimated to be at 9 pm.

In the cool of the evening!

china town's Metro Plaza Hotel was alright to stay in for two days while bracketing the TO excursion last august for around $95 per night. less than two blocks from the front door of the depot. dave, out.

I would be very interested in the revised schedule, except now there are no provisions for return transportation to Los Angeles for those who just wanted to ride the first leg out of Los Angeles. Do any of you know how to get to Los Angeles or Phoenix by bus? Greyhound does not serve Parker and I couldn't find through an Internet search any other options

There is some good transit to LAUPT.

When I called TUT earlier this week, they weren't taking orders, they were taking names and phone numbers for
call backs once all the contracts were in place. Arlen

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would be very interested in the revised
> schedule, except now there are no provisions for
> return transportation to Los Angeles for those who
> just wanted to ride the first leg out of Los
> Angeles. Do any of you know how to get to Los
> Angeles or Phoenix by bus? Greyhound does not
> serve Parker and I couldn't find through an
> Internet search any other options

If there is enough people going to Parker to ride the excursion back to Los Angeles, a charter bus could be hired at a not to terribe per person price.

asheldrake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I called TUT earlier this week, they weren't
> taking orders, they were taking names and phone
> numbers for
> call backs once all the contracts were in place.
> Arlen


I can see why they are doing this. They have scrambled the schedule again even from Chris' post earlier today - now leaving Monday at 9:00 a.m. instead of Sunday at 7:00 a.m. and dropping double header down the Peavine (that's still BNSF owned and they may have an issue with CBQ 4960 running it). So we are left with a one-day less trip and a trip cost that is also less than originally published.

Just out of curiosity, I did a quick price by day calculation. On the Daylight trip in 2009 we were on board in a roomette for $4,699. That included dome access and I was upgraded to a bedroom. Cost per day was $671 based on 7 nights on the train. For the 3751 trip, I am paying $4196 for a roomette including the supplement for dome access. That's about $1,398 per night based on three nights. That's quite a difference. Of course we all know the Daylight's trip lost money or at least didn't make any for the supposed benefactor, the 1225 group in Owosso. And no one is being forced to purchase a ticket. But non the less, that's quite a difference in price for less mileage, fewer nights and the same accommodations. Ok, just now looking to see what the price reduction mentioned earlier is which should help somewhat. Glad they moved the departure to 9A as 7A would be very difficult to make for many. But the constant date changes don't make arranging flights any easier and frequent flyer seats won't be available much longer (which are necessary because they can be canceled without penalty if necessary which may very well be the case here!)

Cumbresfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> asheldrake Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When I called TUT earlier this week, they
> weren't
> > taking orders, they were taking names and phone
> > numbers for
> > call backs once all the contracts were in place.
>
> > Arlen
>
>
> I can see why they are doing this. They have
> scrambled the schedule again even from Chris' post
> earlier today - now leaving Monday at 9:00 a.m.
> instead of Sunday at 7:00 a.m. and dropping double
> header down the Peavine (that's still BNSF owned
> and they may have an issue with CBQ 4960 running
> it). So we are left with a one-day less trip and a
> trip cost that is also less than originally
> published.

...or maybe; just a maybe, GCRy had an issue with CB&Q 4960 running down the Peavine.

...or maybe; just a maybe, GCRy had an issue with CB&Q 4960 running down the Peavine.

True, or it maybe it was just T&T's PR dream!

asheldrake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I called TUT earlier this week, they weren't
> taking orders, they were taking names and phone
> numbers for
> call backs once all the contracts were in place.
> Arlen

Interesting, especially since I've already been billed for 1/2 of my order.

Why does any of this surprise anyone? For years I have heard complaining from riders of previous Chris Scow mainline charter trips. The business declared bankruptcy a few years ago and has returned under a different name. It seems that the majority have put that behind them as this trip would not have gotten this far. My advice is don't mail a check and a use credit card for payments so if something happens you can get your money back. The second recommendation is to look at the trip as an adventure.

Mainline steam on the west coast is expensive to host and every trip might be the last. If you choose to ride go with an open mind and be flexible. I don't think it is Chris's goal to have this be a failure. Running an excursion of this magnitude is a huge financial risk, one that I doubt even under the best circumstances can be that profitable. I hope it goes off well as these steam trips are good for shoring up interest in the hobby.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Emmo213 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> asheldrake Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When I called TUT earlier this week, they
> weren't
> > taking orders, they were taking names and phone
> > numbers for
> > call backs once all the contracts were in place.
>
> > Arlen
>
> Interesting, especially since I've already been
> billed for 1/2 of my order.

Same here. I'm watching developments closely because the second half is supposed to be billed by CC on February 12. With these changes and by my calculations it should be quite a bit less than what my November invoice says it will be. They also promise a full refund if the trip doesn't go.

Thanks for the post Todd. I've been on trips since the bankruptcy and enjoyed them. They are an adventure and one has to be prepared for last minute changes and circumstances beyond their control. When I have communicated with Chris, I have found him accommodating to my requests. FYI, they have posted this notice up on the website this morning:

Over the past several weeks we have had to change and revise the day by day itinerary several times to satisfy the operating plans of each railroad. Finally we have come to a plan where all of the railroads involved has agreed upon. We now have a final itinerary that works for everyone. It has been a real challenge to get an itinerary that fits into each railroads operating plans.

Further:
OUR EXCURSION HAS NOW RECEIVED CONDITIONAL APPROVAL FROM THE BNSF THROUGH AMTRAK. WE ARE NOW WAITING FOR THE CONTRACTS TO BE DRAWN UP. THE NEW ITINERARY IS POSTED BELOW

http://www.traintrips.biz/grand-canyon-limited.html