Steam & Excursion > What's up with the U.P. 844???

Hauled three grand kids down to Murchson, TX from Dallas late this am for the first of three or four photo spots I know of. It was in Mount Pleasant, TX when we left the house and there it still sits.

It rained on us the whole way down and the whole time we waited for the train to show. A phone call from Mrs. Olddude41 confirmed a "technical difficulty" with the 844 at Mount Pleasant according to the U.P. website. So we scrubbed the mission and came home.

If anyone knows more, please post.

Larry W. Grant
(olddude41)
Dallas, Texas

Murphy climbed aboard...

Several reports on the railspot board seem to indicate that the engineer over ran a signal, or at least made a tough stop. It is reported that there are flat spots on the driver tires, based on a short video of the crew working on the rear driver on the engineers side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmtSk1icR54&feature=youtube_gdata_player

after grinding they made a short test run, also on you tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EevK_tt7qCc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

In the second video showing the test run, the gates barely made it down in time! Also, the whistle seemed to take the cameraman by surprise. Thanks for sharing.

Chris Donhost
Vacaville, CA

Flat spots on ALL FOUR DRIVERS?????? Why where the brakes even being used ON THE DRIVERS?

HotWater Wrote:
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> Flat spots on ALL FOUR DRIVERS?????? Why where
> the brakes even being used ON THE DRIVERS?


Jack,Do the driver brakes even have enough power to slide the drivers?
Steve

You bet your a$$ they do! THAT is why the Engineer is NEVER supposed to allow the "engine brakes", or "independent brakes" for you diesel guys, to apply during braking in train service. A light locomotive is obviously a different situation, but then the engine isn't trying to brake a whole train either.

Also, allowing the driver brakes to apply can overheat the tires and cause them to loosen on the wheel centers.

Jack,

Must have big-holed and perhaps through inexperience didn't bale quickly enough??

John

HotWater Wrote:
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> You bet your a$$ they do! THAT is why the Engineer
> is NEVER supposed to allow the "engine brakes", or
> "independent brakes" for you diesel guys, to apply
> during braking in train service. A light
> locomotive is obviously a different situation, but
> then the engine isn't trying to brake a whole
> train either.
>
> Also, allowing the driver brakes to apply can
> overheat the tires and cause them to loosen on the
> wheel centers.

I knew that was the danger of to much driver brake thats why I wondered if they would do that much.
Steve

Depending on the situation, plugging it and not bailing off unfortunately might have been the quickest way to stop. If he had bailed off it would have bailed off 844, tender, the 2 water tenders, and the SD70ACe in the consist, leaving only the 6 passenger cars to do the braking. I would think that would prolong the stopping distance considerably when you think of the weight of the equipment bailed off. Again, that would depend on the situation. If they had a signal drop, bring it to an easy stop. If they really "got by one", I'm not sure what would have been the best thing to do, and it's obviously not something that happens a lot with this thing. Bad deal.

Pump

Posted from iPhone

Pump,

Wow, is that right? Bailing the independent brake knocks off equipment behind tender?!

You undoubtedly know far more about brakes than I do, and by the way I was thinking that perhaps a member of called crew was running not a regular member of the steam crew, but I'd had no idea the effect of bailing extended beyond tank brakes.

John Bush
Omaha

4-12-2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pump,
>
> Wow, is that right? Bailing the independent brake
> knocks off equipment behind tender?!
>
> You undoubtedly know far more about brakes than I
> do, and by the way I was thinking that perhaps a
> member of called crew was running not a regular
> member of the steam crew, but I'd had no idea the
> effect of bailing extended beyond tank brakes.
>
> John Bush
> Omaha

Sounds like Bob needs to chime in here. I also am surprised the water bottles are not part of the train brakes.
Steve

Well PUMP, I'm afraid that you may be out of your league here. The aux tenders are NORMALLY set for "freight car" position on their brake valves, thus they are part of the TRAIN BRAKES and NOT part of the independent. Thus "bailing off" the driver brakes, ONLY actuates off the engine and tender.

On such a light consist as the train set in question, the aux tenders SHOULD have been part of the train braking system.

I also think the 64 thousand dollar question is,,,,,,,,,who the hell was running 844???????

Every time I saw the 844 on its trip through Arkansas, 844's engineer Ed Dickens was running it.

Ken Z

did it ever leave Mt Pleasant?

I spoke with a crew member this evening. They are possibly going to limp back to Cheyenne and cancel the rest of the Texas and Louisiana tour. Still discussing and will make a final decision in the morning.

Dang - so close to Tyler too.

I think it was 1993, the Cotton Belt 819 was, and still is, the last steam locomotive in town.

Someone has some 'splaining to do .....

It was reported on another board by a witness that said that the diesel kept pushing after the engine brakes were applied and that it was a planned stop, signal was green etc. I thought that the diesel was operated by controls from 844, so maybe it was not any engineers fault, but a mechanical failure. I am sure that what ever is decided, UP will let everyone know in the morning.

elueck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was reported on another board by a witness that
> said that the diesel kept pushing after the engine
> brakes were applied and that it was a planned
> stop, signal was green etc. I thought that the
> diesel was operated by controls from 844, so maybe
> it was not any engineers fault, but a mechanical
> failure. I am sure that what ever is decided, UP
> will let everyone know in the morning.


If it was truly an emergency stop, if the brakes were actually placed in emergency, the diesel should have went to idle when the PC tripped. It might have been just a full service reduction, in which case they may have not realized the diesel was not manually notched down in all the confusion, and still loading. On good, dry, sanded rail, wheels should not slide anyway, even in emergency. (read about braking ratios) When you hear flatspots on trains, it's usually because the car making the noise was dragged around with a handbrake set when it was empty. Same with engines. They usually won't slide if conditions are good, they just don't set them up to develope that much brake cylinder pressure. But you can get flatspots if you use air brakes with a handbrake set.

ddg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it was truly an emergency stop, if the brakes
> were actually placed in emergency, the diesel
> should have went to idle when the PC tripped. It
> might have been just a full service reduction, in
> which case they may have not realized the diesel
> was not manually notched down in all the
> confusion, and still loading. On good, dry, sanded
> rail, wheels should not slide anyway, even in
> emergency. (read about braking ratios) When you
> hear flatspots on trains, it's usually because the
> car making the noise was dragged around with a
> handbrake set when it was empty. Same with
> engines. They usually won't slide if conditions
> are good, they just don't set them up to develope
> that much brake cylinder pressure. But you can get
> flatspots if you use air brakes with a handbrake
> set.

Most steam locomotives, and this one in particular, are not equipped with handbrakes.