Steam & Excursion > ATSF 3463 Adopted for Sustainable Rail Project

http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2012/UR_CONTENT_389949.html

Sustainable Rail International, University of Minnesota
Announce Coalition to Develop the World’s Cleanest Passenger Locomotive

New steam engine has the potential to change both 
the rail industry and clean energy research

MINNEAPOLIS - Plans to create the world's first carbon-neutral higher-speed locomotive were announced today by the Coalition for Sustainable Rail (CSR), a collaboration of the University of Minnesota's Institute on the Environment (IonE) and the nonprofit Sustainable Rail International (SRI). CSR draws on the carbon-neutral solid biofuel research expertise of the University of Minnesota and the modern steam mechanical engineering capabilities of SRI to develop the most powerful carbon-neutral locomotive to date.

CSR Project 130 has a simple goal: create the world's cleanest, most powerful passenger locomotive, proving the viability of solid biofuel and modern steam locomotive technology. The Coalition will put its technology to the test by planning to break the world record for steam locomotive speed, reaching 130 miles per hour and demonstrating the viability of this revolutionary, clean transportation technology.

The locomotive will run on torrefied biomass (biocoal), a biofuel created through an energy-efficient processing of cellulosic biomass. Biocoal exhibits the same energy density and material handling properties as coal, but unlike coal, it is carbon neutral, contains no heavy metals, and produces less ash, smoke and volatile off-gases. Since it exhibits such similar characteristics to coal, biocoal has the potential to revolutionize the way the United States generates clean electricity.

"Participation in the Coalition for Sustainable Rail has enabled our team to pursue one of the more exciting and potentially groundbreaking research projects in the history of IonE," said Rod Larkins, Special Projects Director of IonE's Initiative for Renewable Energy and the Environment. "Once perfected, creating the world's first carbon-neutral locomotive will be just the beginning for this technology which, we hope, will later be used for combined heat and power energy in the developing world as well as reducing the United States' dependence on fossil fuels."

Preliminary research shows that CSR's test locomotive will cost less to maintain and less to fuel, and will exhibit greater train handling performance than any diesel-electric locomotives available today. The modern steam locomotive has relied on technology that has been neglected for decades. This is about to change. With the ability to burn biocoal efficiently and without negative impact on the environment, CSR's modern steam locomotive will also exhibit significantly better horsepower output at higher speeds than the current diesel-electric locomotives that pull the majority of passenger trains in the United States.

"This project presents a novel approach to U.S. locomotive development, looking to technologies of the past to inspire solutions for today's sustainability challenges," said SRI president Davidson Ward. "I'm confident that the leading energy researchers we're working with at the University of Minnesota, along with our team of engineers, will be able to bring this technology to the forefront of America's energy and transportation conversations."

In November 2011, SRI acquired a large test bed steam locomotive through a no-cost transfer of ownership from the Great Overland Station museum and education center in Topeka, Kan. This locomotive, built in 1937 for the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad as number 3463, will be reconfigured by SRI's locomotive modernization experts, then tested as part of CSR Project 130.

The success of CSR Project 130 has implications that extend beyond the railroad industry, proving the viability of biocoal for use in the developing world. Locomotive engineering on combustion and boiler technologies allows CSR to design power boilers and electric generators on scales from 5 to 5,000 kilowatts. This technology is adaptable for homes in villages of the developing world as well as for use in the U.S. Every dollar spent on engineering support of CSR Project 130 can generate up to three times the benefit in outgrowth technologies to solve energy problems in the United States and around the world.

"When I think of the University of Minnesota's motto, 'Driven to Discover,™' it is precisely the kind of research-based innovation present in CSR Project 130 that sets our school apart," said Don Fosnacht, Ph.D., Director of the University's Center for Applied Research and Technology Development. "The idea of integrating cutting-edge materials science and engineering into a technology base that has not been touched since the 1960s is quite unique, and entering into an industry with as much potential for growth as the U.S. railroad market just adds to CSR Project 130's impact."

In May, SRI completed a cosmetic restoration and stabilization of Locomotive 3463 in Topeka. Plans are to move the locomotive to Minneapolis within the next 12 months. Once moved, CSR will complete the detailed engineering needed to modernize and reconfigure the locomotive.

For more information on the Coalition for Sustainable Rail and CSR Project 130 visit www.csrail.org.

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Sustainable Rail International:

Sustainable Rail International (SRI), an IRS approved 501(c)(3) and Minnesota nonprofit corporation, is a scientific and educational organization whose mission is to advance biofuel research and production; to research and develop sustainable railroad locomotives; to promulgate associated sustainable technologies; and to support and conduct nonpartisan educational and informational activities to increase awareness of sustainable railroad locomotives. Founded by Rob Mangels, Shaun McMahon, John Rhodes and Davidson Ward, SRI maintains internationally renowned steam locomotive mechanical engineers and U.S. industry professionals among its diverse members.

Institute on the Environment:

The University of Minnesota's Institute on the Environment discovers solutions to Earth's most pressing environmental problems by conducting transformative research, developing the next generation of global leaders and building world-changing partnerships. Learn more online at www.environment.umn.edu.

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nathansixchime Wrote:
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http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2012/UR_CON
TENT_389949.html

Preliminary research shows that CSR's test
locomotive will cost less to maintain and less to
fuel, and will exhibit greater train handling
performance than any diesel-electric locomotives
available today.

RIGHT!!!! Wonder if they need any ocean-front property in Arizona, too?

It's not even close to April 1st!!! These guys seems to be stuck on the idea that charcoal briquets are cheaper than oil, without factoring any other costs associated with steam. I'm not sure why they picked a railroad locomotive; this idea seems much more suited to a stationary power plant. I wonder where they plan to get their money. This seems very ambitious and having people donate $34.63 won't get you very far. Something tells me this will be another footnote in the wild ideas that never happened book.

-James
http://www.steamtrainvideos.com

I remember seeing the "Homer Mobile" on an episode of the Simpsons. That seems to come to mind for me.

Wonder what Ross Roland thinks about this?

Another thought: remodeling is VERY expensive. Building new would seem to be the best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/12 16:01 by tomstp.

tomstp Wrote:
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Wonder what Daryl McCormick thinks about this?

OK, I give up! Just who is "Daryl McCormick"?????

Engineer of the HomerMobile?

Cheers, Dave

HotWater Wrote:
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> RIGHT!!!! Wonder if they need any ocean-front
> property in Arizona, too?


So does anyone have any INTELLIGENT responses to this?

I'm taking my standard cautiously optimistic approach.

TimBo611 Wrote:
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> So does anyone have any INTELLIGENT responses to
> this?
>
> I'm taking my standard cautiously optimistic
> approach.

Me too, although I would be very interested in what Ross Rowland has to say. After all, he and the management of the Chessie System (now part of CSX) were very serious about developing a modern cleaner burning steam locomotive back in the mid 1980's and they did some experiments with the ex-C&O 614 steam locomotive.
John

I think the cold in the Twin Cities has gotten to these guys. Maybe they can at least doublehead it with the 261.

This is one of those wild railfan dreams that you wish would come true. Take the excitement generated by the ACE 3000 tests, and add an attempt to break the steam speed record. I always thought an 84-inch drivered Hudson or Atlantic would be perfect for this. ATSF 3463 is an ideal candidate, especially if you add poppet valves and make other speed related improvements to it.

But I don't see how burning "biocoal" and breaking the speed record go together. And I don't know how these goals translate to building a modern steam locomotive. The more logical approach would be to build something that (like a diesel), can run all day with minimal crew, no maintenance, and no servicing stops. Even with the cost of coal (or in this case "biocoal") being less expensive than oil, I don't see how you build a modern high-speed reciprocating steam locomotive that is competitive with diesel-electric or electric locomotives.

This would be very interesting to see, but I'm skeptical. Based on the sponsor list, the hardest obstacle is going to be securing funding.

-James

TimBo611 Wrote:
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> So does anyone have any INTELLIGENT responses to this?

---

Double headed with 614T on CSX to the Greenbriar ! AllRighty Now !

Craft for the win.

Why is everyone so negative? Why don't you all just wait and see what happens before you jump into an instant stream of doubt. Sorry its not going to please the people who'll only settle for an original restoration........ I know that at the very least this will put on a extremely good show for sure!

I think there is a German decopod in Switzerland that has had some serious adjustments for clean energy fueling.

Where is Dante's Red Devil when you need it?

Intelligent answer?? Every time you make an energy change you lose efficiency. That
might not be "intelligent" but you're gonna get your ass kicked trying to screw with
the laws of physics. Every energy loss causes smoke, heat, static or some other
unwanted thing. I could go for steam being the most practical use of cheap coal if
you could get around the thermal losses, the mechanical part isn't too bad. But in
the end, how much money you got to lose????

TimBo611 Wrote:

> So does anyone have any INTELLIGENT responses to
> this?
>
> I'm taking my standard cautiously optimistic
> approach.

I'm downright curious. While I agree with HotWater that some of their efficiency and maintenance cost comments seem like a load of something other than coal, the offset in fuel costs would go a long way to covering up those issues. Diesel is hovering around $4.00/gallon, and each gallon contains approximately 130k BTU, for a total of 32,500 BTU/$ in fuel. Coal is around $2.25/MBTU, or about 450,000 BTU/$. You get 13.8 TIMES more BTU's per dollar with coal.

http://205.254.135.7/forecasts/steo/report/prices.cfm

Will that make this a more profitable locomotive to use in passenger service? Honestly, I highly doubt it - I think Jack's right, maintenance will be their downfall. But if they learn something from the venture my guess is they'll be happy (notice the University backing), and if it gets a steam locomotive - in some form - back on the rails, I'll be happy. Either way, I wish them the best of luck on their project and am looking forward to seeing what develops.

nathansixchime Wrote:
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> http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2012/UR_CON
> TENT_389949.html
>
> locomotive speed, reaching 130 miles per hour and
> demonstrating the viability of this revolutionary,
> clean transportation technology.

130 mph? Are you kidding me? Anybody out there care to name ONE line that would be willing to allow some test like this to even be attempted? If you think the cost of insurance for a typical mainline excursion is astronomical, I can't wait to see the response when these folks approach a railroad with their request to run 3463 at speeds even approaching that.

I'm from Missouri.

Regards,
Burlington John