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Steam & Excursion > She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #4294!


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Date: 01/21/13 04:32
She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #4294!
Author: LoggerHogger

Most all of us think of SP #4294 as simmply an impressive display engine. That is not surprising since the big cab forward was in service for only 12 short years on the SP and she has now spent over 56 years on display.

Delivered in March 1944 to meet the demands of WWII Baldwin C/N 70101 was the last new steam locomotive built for and delivered to the SP. This gave her distinction enough that she was saved for display when diesels bumped her from the roster in March 1956.

In this first view we see #4294 getting ready to head another freight train out of Southern California in the late 1940's. Her 124,400#s of tractive force will be more than a match for her assignment on this day.

The next view shows SP #4294 at Truckee, California getting turned on the wye for another trip over the Sierra's.

It was on October 19, 1958, during the last steam run on the SP, using SP #4460, that SP dedicated #4294 to her first display spot at the Sacramento depot where she would languish for decades until she was retrieved and restored to her current condition on display at the California State Railroad museum.

For now lets remember her in here all to brief years of service as the last of a proud line of Southern Pacific steam locomotives.


Martin



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/13 05:38 by LoggerHogger.






Date: 01/21/13 05:32
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: KeyRouteKen

Martin-- If you please, a couple of corrections are in order... The dates of the final 4460 steam trip were October 18-19, 1958. The dates shown in John Signor's "Donner" book are incorrect.
To quote yourself from one year ago:
Author: LoggerHogger
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was a 2-day trip. The Oakland to Sparks day was Saturday October 18, 1958 and she returned the next day, Sunday October 19, 1958. I have numerous negatives taken by several photographers on both days and the 18-19th were clearly marked on the negative sleeves for the 2-day trip.

Martin

OK ??
Also-- ALL 195 cab forwards were to be scrapped, including the 4294, by SP dictate.
However, when Fred Stindt of the R&LHS found out about that, he personally begged
SP President D.J. Russell to save the 4294. Russell finally relented and the rest is history!!

KRK



Date: 01/21/13 06:10
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: KeyRouteKen

How 'bout this shot, Martin...

Thru the courtesy of John Harder and Evan Werkema (Mr.Winterail), we have this view of the dedication ceremony in Sacramento when the SP 4294 was placed on display in the little park near the C.P. Huntington.
The 4294 was formally given to the City of Sacramento.

Cheers.

KRK




Date: 01/21/13 09:34
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: YG

Nice to see in operation!

Steve Mitchell
http://www.yardgoatimages.com



Date: 01/21/13 12:54
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: Margaret_SP_fan

I agree -- very nice to see a photo of the
marvelous cab-forward 4294 in actual
operation. Now -- if only some moneybags
would fund her restoration and get the UP
to let her run from Sacramento to Ogden in
2019 for the 150th anniversary of the driving
of the golden spike, and meet up with a Big Boy,
coupler to coupler......I know -- I am dreaming --
but -- hey! A person can dream, can't she?

Martin: thanks for the great photos!
And Ken -- that's a neat photo of the dedication
of the 4294. I had no idea that Fred Stindt was
responsible for convincing the SP to save her. wow...



Date: 01/21/13 19:07
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: Steamjocky

Most of the credit should go to Danny Shea who was one of the head honchos of PR department of the SP. He thought that the SP should save a cab forward for donation though nobody wanted a locomotive that big. It was he who recommended that it be the 4294 that was saved because it was the last steam locomotive purchased new by the SP. The Chief Mechanical Officer (whose name escapes me at the moment) really didn't care as he just wanted it off the property. The story of the 4294 is in one of the issues of the SP Historical Society's magazine, TRAINLANE, which I cannot find at the moment.

JDE



Date: 01/21/13 19:30
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: 1003-2719-1385-engr

Do any pictures exist of the inside of the cab of a "cab-forward" locomotive?



Date: 01/21/13 23:10
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: john1082

1003-2719-1385-engr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do any pictures exist of the inside of the cab of
> a "cab-forward" locomotive?

The cab of the 4294 is often open for viewing and photos

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA



Date: 01/21/13 23:13
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: lwilton

I've never quite figured out where the fireman lived in a cab forward. Was he on the back platform next to the tender, or up in the cab controlling the fire remotely and not able to see the grate?



Date: 01/22/13 05:31
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: KeyRouteKen

Steamjocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of the credit should go to Danny Shea who was
> one of the head honchos of PR department of the
> SP. He thought that the SP should save a cab
> forward for donation though nobody wanted a
> locomotive that big. It was he who recommended
> that it be the 4294 that was saved because it was
> the last steam locomotive purchased new by the SP.
> The Chief Mechanical Officer (whose name escapes
> me at the moment) really didn't care as he just
> wanted it off the property. The story of the 4294
> is in one of the issues of the SP Historical
> Society's magazine, TRAINLANE, which I cannot find
> at the moment.

Hey Steamjockey-- I 'DO' recall a guy named Shea who was the PR Dept head, BUT, I stick by my story regarding Fred Stindt's dealing with D.J. Russell, SP President.
Author Bob Church could verify as he has written extensively on Cab-Forwards and also appears in the one certain Cab-Forward video, with John Signor, that Pentrex put out.

KRK
>
> JDE



Date: 01/22/13 07:22
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: PhillipJohnson

lwilton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never quite figured out where the fireman
> lived in a cab forward. Was he on the back
> platform next to the tender, or up in the cab
> controlling the fire remotely and not able to see
> the grate?


The entire boiler was turned around, so the cab was still over the backhead of the firebox, and the fireman was in the cab where he could look into the firebox should he need to. Imagine a normal engine with the tender disconnected and areacctached at the pilot, thats essentially all a Cab Forward is. The firebox and tender are some distance apart, which I would imagine created a more critical pipe insulation/heating problem keeping the heavy fuel oil hot enough by the time it got to the burner so that it would still atomize.



Date: 01/22/13 07:51
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: LoggerHogger

In addition to the heat in the fuel line, the tender was pressurized to 5psi to keep the oil flowing. You can see the different type of oil hatch used on these tenders to keep the bunker pressurized.

Martin



Date: 01/22/13 13:47
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: czuleget

One other error common about the Sierra mountains in many posts here and on other boards, is that too many folks place an S at the end of (Sierra's) this is not correct. As their is only one Sierra mountain range. So it should be Sierra, other wise I love the posted information and pictures.

Thank you very much.



Date: 01/22/13 15:05
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: nycman

Hmmm, in the Sierra mountain range, there is more than one mountain, thus we refer to them as "the Sierras," such as people do for "the Rockies" or "the Pyrenees."



Date: 01/22/13 21:53
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: boltmansacto

czuleget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One other error common about the Sierra mountains
> in many posts here and on other boards, is that
> too many folks place an S at the end of (Sierra's)
> this is not correct. As their is only one Sierra
> mountain range. So it should be Sierra, other wise
> I love the posted information and pictures.
>
> Thank you very much.


Grammatically right or wrong, we love our Sierra(s) with 2 S's !



Date: 01/23/13 16:06
Re: Sierra
Author: timz2

---------------
> in the Sierra mountain range, there is more
> than one mountain, thus we refer to them as
> "the Sierras"

Mt Whitney-- that's one Sierra. Mt Lyell and Mt Dana--
two more Sierras. Pyramid Peak-- still another Sierra.
Looking at them from the valley, we say "Look at all
those Sierras. Must be hundreds of them." No one knows
why the Spanish didn't call them Las Sierras Nevadas--
obviously they should have.



Date: 01/23/13 21:54
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: EdSelinsky

john1082 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1003-2719-1385-engr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do any pictures exist of the inside of the cab
> of
> > a "cab-forward" locomotive?
>
> The cab of the 4294 is often open for viewing and
> photos


I was just inside the cab of 4294 three days ago, but was short on time, and took no photos. The fireman sits on the left side with his firing valve to his right and in front of him. His injector is to his left, and his other valves, (feedwater heater, atomiser, oil heater etc.) are directly to his right side as well as his usual gages. The water glasses are behind him mounted in their usual spots on the backhead, so he has to turn his head almost completely around to check the water level in the boiler. There also appeared to be no seat available for the head brakeman in the cab. Wouldn't union rules require a seat for him, or would something like a portable chair fulfill such a requirement?



Date: 01/24/13 01:07
Re: Sierra
Author: lwilton

timz2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> > in the Sierra mountain range, there is more
> > than one mountain, thus we refer to them as
> > "the Sierras"
>
> Mt Whitney-- that's one Sierra. Mt Lyell and Mt Dana--
> two more Sierras. Pyramid Peak-- still another Sierra.
> Looking at them from the valley, we say "Look at all
> those Sierras. Must be hundreds of them." No one knows
> why the Spanish didn't call them Las Sierras Nevadas--
> obviously they should have.

I have a pretty good idea why they didn't. In Spanish "sierra" means "saw". "La Sierra Nevada" == "The Nevada Saw". So the individual peaks are the individual pointy saw teeth. Having multiple teeth on a saw doesn't make the saw itself plural.

Now, "sierra" also seems to translate as "mountain" or perhaps more exactly as "mountain range". It is pretty obvious though that the root meaning was "saw", and some Spaniard looked at the mountains and said "Boy, look at that saw-like mountain range!".



Date: 01/24/13 09:34
Re: She Was Not Always On Display - SP Cab-Forward #429
Author: JLY

Steamjocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of the credit should go to Danny Shea who was
> one of the head honchos of PR department of the
> SP. He thought that the SP should save a cab
> forward for donation though nobody wanted a
> locomotive that big. It was he who recommended
> that it be the 4294 that was saved because it was
> the last steam locomotive purchased new by the SP.
> The Chief Mechanical Officer (whose name escapes
> me at the moment) really didn't care as he just
> wanted it off the property. The story of the 4294
> is in one of the issues of the SP Historical
> Society's magazine, TRAINLANE, which I cannot find
> at the moment.
>
> JDE

I remember a PR vice resident named James Shea that had some responsibility for getting this anachronism moved to the front of the depot in 1978. The General hops had instructions to keep it maintained even after it was moved back to the shop area at Car Shop 3 until it was moved into the museum in 1981.



Date: 01/24/13 13:31
Re: Sierra
Author: Evan_Werkema

lwilton Wrote:

> I have a pretty good idea why they didn't. In
> Spanish "sierra" means "saw". "La Sierra Nevada"
> == "The Nevada Saw".

While "sierra" certainly started out meaning "saw" (from the Latin serra), I'm pretty sure the connection was made to a mountain range's saw-like appearance and the term thus applied long before Spaniards set eyes on California. Spain has its own set of mountains called Sierra Nevada, "nevada" meaning "snowy." Since "snowy saw" doesn't make sense, the people who named the range surely had "mountains" in mind. Otherwise, one has to wonder at the sick, twisted thinking that gave rise to the name Sierra Madre...



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