Steam & Excursion > Last Of The Giants (Part 2) & The 4014

To this day I remember what Steve Lee said about Big Boys running again on the U.P. when asked in Last Of The Giants - Part 2.

There were two (2) points he made and they're (still) valid points.

1) The weight of a Big Boy will keep it off of many switches & bridges.

2) There are (I believe) only two (2) places where a 4000 class locomotive can be turned. One (obviously) is in Cheyenne & the other is at Point Of Rocks. I remember that the turntable in Laramie is gone & I would also speculate that they're gone from Denver, Rawlins, Green River & Ogden.

But, here we are. The 4014 is going to be running again & these valid issues must be addressed. Especially if the Union Pacific wants to get the 4014 out into its' system in observance of its' 150th Anniversary.

UP restored the 122 foot turntable to service at the Burnham Diesel shop, in Denver, in February 2013. The Cheyenne turntable is 126 foot in diameter by comparison.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2997618,3019269#msg-3019269

Perhaps that could that be used to turn a Big Boy?

Bob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/13 13:36 by up421.

My opinion as to the weight issue, the railroads today use A LOT heavier rail now which shouldn't be a problem. As far as any bridges, yes the older
ones would have weight a concern. Remember not only turntables can turn a locomotive. There are still plenty of wyes they can use. When 3985 came through so Cal many years ago it used a wye in Riverside (Pedley), Ca. Lastly I seriously don't think UP would spend the millions of dollars to restore the locomotive if they couldn't run it anywhere.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/13 14:17 by sphauler.

up421 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UP restored the 122 foot turntable to service at
> the Burnham Diesel shop, in Denver, in February
> 2013.
>
> http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2
> 997618,3019269#msg-3019269
>
> Perhaps that could that be used to turn a Big
> Boy?
>
> Bob

Hey Bob-- Dream on.... The Big Boy is 132-feet in length..

KRK

Not all wye's are created the same. A couple of decades Santa Fe 3751 came to Kansas City & Topeka. It barely sweaked around the wye at Santa Fe Jct, and the floor plate bent up against the left inside of the tender. They were going to turn it again at Topeka, but found out the wye there was too tight. They decided to take it on to NR Jct at Emporia and were ablt to turn it there, but that wye is gone now. I'm hoping UP had more accomodating wyes for their larger engines.

I would think that someone out there has a list of wyes and the radius of each. How tight or loose does it has to be for a big boy?

What is the total wheelbase of the 4018's engine and tender? That's what needs to go on the TT. Total length of engine and tender would only come into play if there was a guardrail or something right up against the TT pit.

CPRR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would think that someone out there has a list of
> wyes and the radius of each. How tight or loose
> does it has to be for a big boy?

Besides that, the moviewas made long before the CNW
and SP mergers. There are probably a number of places
it could go now that it could not have before that.

After all, a lot of the old SP was set up for large
articulateds.

The Cheyenne turntable will turn a Big Boy w/ 3' overhang on either end.

You know, railroads have groups of people called "Engineering Departments". They work all this stuff out. Ya think they probably talked to their Engineering Department before they made the decision? Or are they relying on railfan opinions? Just asking.

And yes, "somebody" indeed knows the radius of every curve on every wye, and the weight limit on every bridge. Ever heard of computer databases? It's all in there somewhere.

Unlike state highway departments, for example.

up421 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UP restored the 122 foot turntable to service at
> the Burnham Diesel shop, in Denver, in February
> 2013. The Cheyenne turntable is 126 foot in
> diameter by comparison.
>
> http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2
> 997618,3019269#msg-3019269
>
> Perhaps that could that be used to turn a Big
> Boy?
>
> Bob

Let's not forget the KP wye at the 36th street yard. That's easy access to the Greeley Sub back to Cheyenne.

Posted from Android

There would be several turning locations for the 4014 if the rail has been maintained to standards. Of course the Cheyenne turntable and Speer and Pullman wye in Denver. Also there is Point of Rocks in Western Wyoming. Then to the east there is the Wimmer Wye in west Omaha. I am not sure about the Malone Wye in east Kansas City. Guess we will find out where Ed finds his turning places.
I know that they used to turn the rare trips east in North Platte on their turntable by blocking up the two rear tender wheels. The same could be done in other locations too.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

Bob

Is there still a wye in Ogden that can be used to turn the 4014?

P

Back when they brought out the Challenger they didn't use it for trips across the whole system; they ran it between Cheyenne and Laramie. Those trips alone were big news and people came to see it. When they arrived in Laramie they didn't back up to Cheyenne; they turned it on the wye. This is an assumption on my part: if the Challenger can turn on the wye in Laramie why can't the Big Boy? Looking at the spec. cards they both are able to handle a twenty degree curve. And in the end I am sure the UP knows exactly where they can turn the Big Boy and mainline clearance issue involved.

What if they simply used a diesel to get it to the points of exhibition and had it under steam. Like most folks I would like to see it crossing Sherman Hill and i believe that will certainly be possible. It seems to me that a Westbound Big Boy crossing Sherman Hill needed to stop at Harriman to take on more coal. Possibly a Big Boy with a passenger consist would make it to Laramie with out more fuel (oil?).

Dunsmuir is 126 Feet. Eugene Yard was 126 Feet & El Paso was 126 Feet. Anybody know what the min curve that is allowed to wye it?

Also, the 49 was restriced to 10 mph around Cantera, even before the string line accident.



Nudge



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/13 16:43 by spnudge.

Bob,do you know how long the table is at Neff that was moved from Armstrong? Did you guys ever use it in either location.
Steve

Bob3985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There would be several turning locations for the
> 4014 if the rail has been maintained to standards.
> Of course the Cheyenne turntable and Speer and
> Pullman wye in Denver. Also there is Point of
> Rocks in Western Wyoming. Then to the east there
> is the Wimmer Wye in west Omaha. I am not sure
> about the Malone Wye in east Kansas City. Guess we
> will find out where Ed finds his turning places.
> I know that they used to turn the rare trips
> east in North Platte on their turntable by
> blocking up the two rear tender wheels. The same
> could be done in other locations too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/13 16:55 by wpjones.

Labby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back when they brought out the Challenger they
> didn't use it for trips across the whole system;
> they ran it between Cheyenne and Laramie. Those
> trips alone were big news and people came to see
> it. When they arrived in Laramie they didn't back
> up to Cheyenne; they turned it on the wye. This is
> an assumption on my part: if the Challenger can
> turn on the wye in Laramie why can't the Big Boy?
> Looking at the spec. cards they both are able to
> handle a twenty degree curve. And in the end I am
> sure the UP knows exactly where they can turn the
> Big Boy and mainline clearance issue involved.
>
> What if they simply used a diesel to get it to the
> points of exhibition and had it under steam. Like
> most folks I would like to see it crossing Sherman
> Hill and i believe that will certainly be
> possible. It seems to me that a Westbound Big Boy
> crossing Sherman Hill needed to stop at Harriman
> to take on more coal. Possibly a Big Boy with a
> passenger consist would make it to Laramie with
> out more fuel (oil?).

The wye in Laramie is out of service.

Bring it to So Cal. We can wye it on the Fullerton / Atwood / Orange wye. About ten miles on each leg!

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

Maybe get the dude that measured the track in Sacramento CA to check out all possible turn around spots!

Go West and make left turns until you come back the other way.