Steam & Excursion >

I think my instant favoritism of the Cumbres & Toltec over the Durango & Siverton is couched in the amusement park atmosphere that permeates Durango, or to put it another way: too many yellow lines along with too many “thou shalt not” signs. I get the hall monitor mentality one-hundred and eighty-two days a year at work, so I’ll pass on that pie as Mark Twain would say. Chama by comparison was like stepping into an era before the paranoids took over, and it was a thing of beauty to experience. Not a bureaucrat within sight, sound, or smell—a world without warning labels the way God intended. Of course I couldn’t shake the feeling I was wandering through Campbell Scale Models catalog either.
Be of good cheer,
—Mac



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/13 07:53 by MacBeau.

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That pretty much sums it up! I'm sure most feel the same way, including myself. However, the D&SNG is well run and hopefully will be with us for many years to come. One can only hope the same longevity will grace the folks and equipment in Chama.

KC

Glad to hear you can get the same experience there as I did in 1994. The place gave me goosebumps.

That was my experience as well in 2007. My son was 11 at the time and while we were taking a few photos around the lead engine he was invited up in the cab for a quick tutorial and then got the chance to throw a shovel of coal into the firebox. Talk about making an impression!

Mike in Tracy

For those of us old enough to remember Durango before the DRGW trashed it (it was the DRGW with help from the Colorado highway folks that did the trashing, not the D&S) the "new" Durango is....well....different. But once you get out of town the D&S is still a good ride. And at least the new Durango facility is a working (and very well equipped) steam shop. We are lucky that both the D&S and C&TS survive. But I admit, Chama is something special....it has changed so little since I first visited in 1960.

JBWX

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jbwest Wrote:
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> For those of us old enough to remember Durango
> since I first visited in 1960.
>
> JBWX

Thank you for those excellent views from the past!
—Mac

Yes, we are indeed fortunate to have both still with us. Two very different experiences with vastly different scenery. And I do understand the need to have crowd control at Durango given the high level of ridership. However this experience from last year really turned me off. I was a participant on Pete Lerro's excellent photo charter. Once back in Durango, we were going to be "escorted" out into the yard by the turntable to photograph the loco being serviced and put to bed. Unfortunately, neither Pete or Bernd Siler were around at the time. Our "escort" finally turned up and walked us out with all sorts of warnings of caution. As the loco finally arrived, and the sun was setting which would have resulted in great images, we were told by said escort that she had a meeting to attend and we would have to go back to the fenced in "viewing area" which of course was facing right into the sun. We tried to explain that we were all experience around railways...many having been all over the world. And that the photos would be ruined shooting directly into the sunset. But she didn't want to hear any of it. I get the part about lawyers etc. But why not have a release form for us to sign and then let us walk un inhibited around the yard. There were no other tourists around to say "me too" so the entire process gave me a bad feeling. Why is it no problem in Chama but such a big deal there....particularly when at that time both operations were being run by the same person?

As was mentioned on another board, Durango was a different place in the 1960's and 1970's before Charlie Bradshaw. He did some good things, but in doing so, a great deal was lost for those of us who really appreciate the loss. Even after the turning loop was made, the yard altered and the coaling tower torn down, you could still wander around with out being bothered. The Rio Grande was big enough, and Durango was far enough from Denver that apparently the company lawyers either did not care, or even want to know what went on there. With the D&S creation, the place simply got lawyered up and all that went away.

I rode the D&S for the first time since I was too young to remember a couple weeks ago. All the criticism here is valid, but it is still a fantastic ride. It has some things that you don't see on the CATS such as waterfalls, adjacent rapids, and freedom to explore Silverton at lunch. Also, even though Animas Canyon isn't as deep as the Toltec Gorge, you can enjoy the view for a longer duration.

As much as I enjoyed it I don't have the urge to go back like I do after riding the CATS. I'm not much for sitting in coach the whole time, and they reserve the seats for the open air car. The only place to go is the concession car.

This may be blasphemous to authenticity buffs, but I'm not a fan of the San Juan cars. The reconstructed cars on the CATS seem to have bigger windows, and are configured for safe riding in the vestibules. They may lack the varnish on the inside, but they are well equipped for viewing the scenery.

Ironically, despite the D&S's CYA attitude towards anything they deem a liability issue, the CATS cars are safer for traveling between cars. I'm surprised that no small child has slipped down the steps of the San Juan cars, and fallen off the train while in motion. Even when the gates are closed, there is plenty of room for a child to fall through underneath. If they really want people off the vestibules they could at least put up a simple chain along the vestibule porch. It may not have happened in the past, but with modern building codes walking paths get overly protected to the point where people are less cautious.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/13 07:47 by ATSF3768.

I use to work for Charlie and more than once I've heard people say less than positive things about his tenure with the D&SNG. One thing that can't be disputed. If it weren't for Charlie the railroad would be gone. He spent a ton of money on the place. When the roundhouse burned he is the one that built that new one with the extensive machine shop and restored all the locomotives that were damaged in the fire. Without Charlie we wouldn't have a railroad in Durango.

The security issues at Durango versus Chama reflect not only differences in management, but also the fact that Chama has the luxury of still being a really small town while since 1970 Durango has grown into a regional megapolis.

JBWX

I have had both of those places on my list of "must do" for quite a long time. Now, the order of visitation has reversed as anyplace that reeks of paranoia goes to the bottom of any of my lists. Airport, anyone?

One definitely does not go to the D&S for an authentic yard experience, you go for the right of way, which is second to none.

If you like authentic railroad facilities and the freedom to walk anywhere therein, in addition to Chama nothing beats the Nevada Northern. It too has been saved by its isolation.

Mike Massee
Tehachapi, CA
Photography, Railroading and more..

It is easy to let the little stuff obscure the big picture. The D&S, the C&TS, and since Mike added the NN, the NN as well, are all GREAT train watching places. Each has its pluses and minuses. As Mike says, if what you want is an "authentic" no holds barred yard experience, you can't beat Ely. On the other hand, Durango is the only one of those three with a turntable. And as great as it is, Chama is not really anything like what it was "back in the days". But all are great, and have drawn me back over and over.....for over 50 years now.

Here is a link to 53 years worth of ng. pix....and I'm still adding more: http://www.lifewastedchasingtrains.com/main.php?g2_itemId=120

JBWX



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/13 10:16 by jbwest.

We had rode the C&TS Chama to Antonito 2 weeks ago. I hadn't been to Chama in 30+ years, and was stunned by how much the track has been upgraded. It's very impressive. Many standard-gauge regional RRs wish they had track this good. We passed a track crew and maintenance train at Cumbres Pass. Everything looked great - the paint seems fresh on most of the freight cars - and there were dozens of Friends of the C&TS volunteers restoring equipment at Chama, also the snowshed at Cumbres Pass. The wife and mother-in-law really enjoyed the parlor car amenities and great attendants (better service than in almost any restaurant you'll ever visit, lots of local info, enthusiastic). Every employee and volunteer we dealt with was knowledgeable, professional, and friendly. Traveling the entire 64-mile line, you really get a sense of how big the country is, much more so than driving. Everyone enjoyed the fast and comfortable bus trip back to Chama. The all-day trip a first-class experience, and the non-railfan part of our group (i.e. the ladies) enjoyed the trip immensely. Every family should experience this trip.

The Chama Station Inn across from the enginehouse & depot was very nice, and the orange+red wild hummingbirds zooming around their garden were a live nature show at a distance of a few feet.

My only regret was lack of time to fish the Conejos River between Chama and Antonito!

- Doug Debs

DWDebs/2472 Wrote:
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>
> My only regret was lack of time to fish the
> Conejos River between Chama and Antonito!
>
> - Doug Debs

I had a friend whose uncle worked for the DRGW in the shops at Alamosa. As a kid he remembers riding the San Juan from Alamosa to Los Pinos in the morning, spending the day fishing, and then catching the San Juan back to Alamosa in the afternoon.

JBWX