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Steam & Excursion > 4014 escape route


Date: 08/21/13 16:24
4014 escape route
Author: box8513

Not being familiar with rail routes around Pomona, could some clever person provide a map/drawing/sketch of the escape route of 4014? Was temporary track used anywhere? It seems she got out fast. And where did the engine number 4018 come from? Thanks for information understanding the process.



Date: 08/21/13 16:39
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: davew833

You're mixing up two different Big Boys. #4014 has not been moved from Pomona and will not be until at least October.

#4018 is in the process of being moved from Dallas, TX., to Frisco, TX., a move that has been planned since long before there was talk of restoring #4014.

The footage and photos of a Big Boy being moved recently are of #4018.

To add to the confusion, both #4018 and #4014 have been displayed at the local fairgrounds in their areas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/13 16:43 by davew833.



Date: 08/22/13 11:29
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: box8513

Wow, was I confused. 4018 in on the road. I assume it will remain on display.



Date: 08/22/13 14:18
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: davew833

Yes, the Museum of the American Railroad which owns #4018 is in the process of moving from Dallas, TX., to Frisco, TX. The #4018 was one of the last pieces of equipment to be moved. There are no plans to restore it to operation.

http://www.museumoftheamericanrailroad.org/



Date: 08/22/13 15:29
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: filmteknik

Yet. LOL

Did 4000's double-head a lot? From photos it seems like they mostly teamed them up with other power if they were double-headed at all.



Date: 08/22/13 16:02
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: mrltim

Just doing some quick analysis shows that 4014 will have to be moved about 4900 feet over to the Metrolink San Gabriel Subdivision. There are not a lot of locations that the track can be accessed from the Fairgrounds though. The most likely place to cut the track would be at about MP 30.05 just West of the Fairplex platform. The buildings along Arrow Highway and at the edge of the Fairgrounds probably restricts where the locomotive can be moved adjacent to the Metrolink tracks and the Arrow Highway and Fairplex drive grade crossings put some additional restrictions on where the track could be cut to have the 4014 access the San Gabriel Sub track.

I guess we will just wait and see how UP is going to do this.



Date: 08/22/13 18:46
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: HotWater

filmteknik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yet. LOL
>
> Did 4000's double-head a lot? From photos it
> seems like they mostly teamed them up with other
> power if they were double-headed at all.

Yes, the 4000s did doublehead, as pretty much every westbound tonnage train out of Cheyenne HAD to be doubleheaded, prior to the construction of track 3 (1952?).



Date: 08/22/13 21:30
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: CPRR

mrltim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just doing some quick analysis shows that 4014
> will have to be moved about 4900 feet over to the
> Metrolink San Gabriel Subdivision. There are not a
> lot of locations that the track can be accessed
> from the Fairgrounds though. The most likely place
> to cut the track would be at about MP 30.05 just
> West of the Fairplex platform. The buildings along
> Arrow Highway and at the edge of the Fairgrounds
> probably restricts where the locomotive can be
> moved adjacent to the Metrolink tracks and the
> Arrow Highway and Fairplex drive grade crossings
> put some additional restrictions on where the
> track could be cut to have the 4014 access the San
> Gabriel Sub track.
>
> I guess we will just wait and see how UP is going
> to do this.

I too would like to know how they are going to do it also. Looking at Google maps I see the same thing. I do not think that they will cut into the track as there is a lot of signal stuff going through there.

Crane it on to the main?

Posted from iPhone



Date: 08/22/13 21:50
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: filmteknik

Cranes to avoid cutting and welding a couple rails (assuming no joints are handy)??? Come on.



Date: 08/22/13 23:35
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: dan

someone made a map here, with potential routes, search for it, can't remember who



Date: 08/23/13 15:51
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: davew833

Here ya go-- someone's ideas for potential #4014 removal options.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3136694



Date: 08/23/13 16:14
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: KeyRouteKen

Here is how the 4014 got into Pomona to begin with, per Stan Kistler who witnessed the event:

"The UP 4014 arrived in the fairgrounds at Pomona on the Pacific Electric spur off
of the San Bernardino line. PE took it from the SP at Bassett. UP delivered it to
SP in Los Angeles.
I was a witness to much of this move.
This move had been done by the same routing in 1956 with UP 9000, a rigid wheelbase
4-12-2. Both had a lot of weight on portions of lightweight rail, and moved without a hitch."

KRK



Date: 08/23/13 21:49
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: filmteknik

I don't suppose 9000 was handled by PE electric power, was it?



Date: 08/23/13 22:42
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: lwilton

I seem to recall that line was de-electrified decades before, unfortunately. I think the PE might still have had a shadowy existance (as part of SP) and been running freight on the line at the time.



Date: 08/25/13 00:06
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: DNRY122

To expand on "lwilton's" comment, the line going past the Fairgrounds was the PE San Bernardino Line, which was de-electrified in 1951. Most of the track used by PE from 1946 on east of Baldwin Park was the former SP Covina/LaVerne branch. This branch also ran from Baldwin Park to Bassett, but that section was never electrified. As I recall the rail on the ex-SP section was in the 80-lb per yard range. PE was finally absorbed into SP on Aug. 13, 1965, although ex-PE employees kept a special seniority status. I was not in the railfan scene in 1961, but I remember that when the Freedom Train with 4449 came to the fairgrounds in 1975, SP had inserted a lot of new ties under the rusty old rails. Then, in 1991-92, the Metrolink project sent all that tired old steel to the scrapyard and welded rail in the 119-lb range was installed. Now the questions are: how will UP move 4014 from its current resting place to the Metrolink line? "Snap track"--building a short piece of track one rail length longer than the locomotive, moving it to the end, then moving the last section of track ahead of the engine, and repeating the process until it's off the property (this is how many of the cars at Orange Empire were moved from the end of the Santa Fe to what was then OETM). The other method is to build a complete railway to the Metrolink and moving the engine in a much smoother manner. Once it gets to Metrolink, how will it be placed on the active track? Bear in mind that in 1961 there just were two or three local freights on this line. Cutting a switch into the track is the most likely plan, although one person suggested using cranes to make the transfer (we're talkin' BIG HONKIN' CRANES here!). Next question: Which way will it go? When 4014 came to Pomona, it was brought up from Bassett, which meant the shorter distance on rickety rails. Now that UP owns the old SP line at Bassett, they could retrace the 1961 route, reverse directions and go east to Pomona or Montclair, where it could be switched over to the former LA & Salt Lake line, getting on the BNSF at Riverside and reaching "home rails" again at Daggett. The alternative would be to go east on the Metrolink line to San Bernardino, and from there take the BNSF to Daggett. This would be the shorter route, and if changing directions is a consideration, eliminate that from the move. The problem with going east is dealing with the 7-days a week ML schedule. I'm not sure how fast UP wants to run the special but keeping it out of the way of the passenger trains might be a challenge. I can imagine the extra stopping at Claremont to clear a train and some non railfan passengers saying, "What on earth was THAT?!?" Tune in on Oct. 1 for the next chapter of this exciting saga!
(this is mostly speculation, backed with historical data from Interurbans Special 61)



Date: 08/25/13 01:01
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: mmm1000

they also double headed with challengers fairly often.



Date: 08/25/13 03:09
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: ut-1

DNRY122: check out the "Before the Snow Flies" thread started by BadTanker below; he refers to a Trains interview this past Friday with Ed Dickens, head of UP's heritage program, wherein Mr. Dickens details both the plans to remove 4014 from the fairgrounds and the route it will take to Cheyenne.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/13 03:11 by ut-1.



Date: 08/25/13 07:13
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: FrensicPic

If you subscribe to Trains Magazine, some info (early speculation) here..
http://trn.trains.com/en/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2013/08/Big%20Boy%20latest.aspx



Date: 08/25/13 21:45
Re: 4014 escape route
Author: lwilton

Not being a trains subscriber I can't see that content. However, from your description, I think similar content may be in the youtube video update on the 4014 that Ed did a few days ago.

I believe (if fading memory servers well enough) that he said they will likely leave the fairgrounds at night to avoid messing with the Metrolink schedule. They would then go to West Colton. That is east of the fairgrounds, but I don't konw the track layouts well enough to know if you can get there by going east on the Metrolink line. They will lay over at West Colton for a few days, and possibly use the drop pit (or just inspection pit?) he claims is there to do a little more thorough inspection on the running gear, and fix anything they need to before the Long Haul.

This still doesn't answer in any detail how they will get off the fairgrounds, other than they are heading for the Metrolink track. But that was obvious all along, there just isn't any other rational way to get an engine that size out of there. (The idea of 4014 going down Arrow Highway on the back of a flatbed bigrig is amusing, but highly improbable.)



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