Steam & Excursion > 3751 Heading Home

I thought this location was ironic, as the 3751 was heading home, it was here , to the right of the train that the UP 4014 left the Fairplex, to begin its trip home.

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Nice, and not much else showing but the locomotive...

Steve Mitchell
http://www.yardgoatimages.com

You KNOW who was firing 3751 here, dont YOU ALL?? ....speaking of the 4014....??

Spikes Wrote:
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> You KNOW who was firing 3751 here, dont YOU ALL??
> ....speaking of the 4014....??

And running a small tad.

Posted from Android

Nice spot, Tom.

One last point of history that has not been emphasied enough here with this very real UP Steam Soap Opera .
When was the Last time that there has been such Long-Running and Sustained Animosity in the history of mainline steam ???
I have been following mainline steam for 30 Years (3 DECADES) and can NOT remember any similar situation as
this very sad and tragic division in the steam community.
I also wonder HOW this rift could possibly be healed for a very BRIGHT future for our BELOVED Steam Trains and People.
We need to focus on ways to bring this very POSITIVE and BRIGHT future to the kids and general public who need
to experience the Grandeur and Splendor of mainline steam.

---- Daniel

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jointlinerailfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spikes Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You KNOW who was firing 3751 here, dont YOU
> ALL??
> > ....speaking of the 4014....??
>
> And running a small tad.
>
> Posted from Android



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/14 17:25 by daniel3197.

The question is, why was an outside person firing when there is more than one SBRHS fireman that has fired this on route in the past.
Why was an outside person running when SBRHS has an engineer that has run her on this route in the past.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/14 07:12 by BarSlant.

Maybe they all want to someday get a cab ride in 4014

BarSlant Wrote:
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> The question is, why was an outside person firing
> when there is more than one SBRHS fireman that has
> fired this on route in the past.
> Why was an outside person running when SBRHS has
> an engineer that has run her on this route in the
> past.


I've got friends on both sides of this situation, but I can tell you what the reality is. When someone says something like " so and so fired this trip once before" or " this engineer has run steam on this line once before" it means very little to the railroad management that are allowing this trip to run on their line. Pretty much all mainline moves of the 3751 ( as well as the 4449 and others) are Amtrak operations anymore, and Amtrak is going to take a very close look at who is going to run the engine, or even fire. In this situation, they just happen to have at least two gentlemen within their own company in that region who are steam qualified and have demonstrated skills and experience. Bill Stetler is about the most experienced mainline steam engineer out there anymore. It's a no-brainer. Even the firemen on these trips need to have the ability to call out and understand signals, flags etc., and help the engineer with seeing what he can't see, in addition to competently firing the engine. The most professional steam operators still keep a tight rein on who gets to do what out on the road. In this day and age we can't afford to have a major mishap. Most of the volunteers on these crews will get time hostling and possibly some firing under supervision or on a less demanding run. But what really needs to happen in order for us to keep having mainline runs is to make sure that when it matters, the best people are at the controls. This isnt a popular attitude with some but there is no substitute for experience.

This appears to be a misunderstanding of the actual facts concerning this issue, and actually focuses a light on the main problem, a lack of knowledge of the actual experience and skills of the people involved. As with all controversies, it is an enjoyable pastime to debate the issue, but only those that are directly involved in the controversy know the true facts and they are not going to discuss them on a forum like Trainorders or any other blog. If they do, they should be removed from the process.

At some point in time when the issue is resolved, then the facts will be released.


flash34 wrote:
> I've got friends on both sides of this situation,
> but I can tell you what the reality is. When
> someone says something like " so and so fired this
> trip once before" or " this engineer has run steam
> on this line once before" it means very little to
> the railroad management that are allowing this
> trip to run on their line. Pretty much all
> mainline moves of the 3751 ( as well as the 4449
> and others) are Amtrak operations anymore, and
> Amtrak is going to take a very close look at who
> is going to run the engine, or even fire. In this
> situation, they just happen to have at least two
> gentlemen within their own company in that region
> who are steam qualified and have demonstrated
> skills and experience. Bill Stetler is about the
> most experienced mainline steam engineer out there
> anymore. It's a no-brainer. Even the firemen on
> these trips need to have the ability to call out
> and understand signals, flags etc., and help the
> engineer with seeing what he can't see, in
> addition to competently firing the engine. The
> most professional steam operators still keep a
> tight rein on who gets to do what out on the road.
> In this day and age we can't afford to have a
> major mishap. Most of the volunteers on these
> crews will get time hostling and possibly some
> firing under supervision or on a less demanding
> run. But what really needs to happen in order for
> us to keep having mainline runs is to make sure
> that when it matters, the best people are at the
> controls. This isnt a popular attitude with some
> but there is no substitute for experience.

All true. To clarify, most of what I said was meant in a general sense, not necessarily particular to this situation. I DO know some of the players in this one and I also know the divide between some of the volunteers and those who decide who gets to do what, and it's not new. I've been on both sides of this myself on other steam crews. But just like you said, and in so many other things in life, there's an inside story, likely completely legitimate, and it's not for most to know.

Posted from iPhone

Ok, this is so cryptic, who was firing the 3751 then? Dickens?

It's not a no-brainer.

Mr. Stetler is certainly a very competent steam man, and in the old days, that would have been sufficient.

In the modern steam industry, especially when such a person wears the road operations mantle of authority from the host railroad, this is not enough, and may in fact not be the most important factor.
Such a person has the responsibility to do other things such as:

>Be a team player.

>When maintenance and servicing procedures differ from the owning organizations , have the respect for the restoration crew to at least listen and learn their rationale for the way they have chosen to safely protect and preserve the engine. Not doing so is a safety issue.

> Most importantly such a person should be a Mentor to both the mechanical crew and the FRA engineers that are part of the organization. Just because you have the authority doesn't mean you have to soak up every minute of seat time.

>It's not enough to just show up once a year and jump up in the seat. Get to know your road crew and what their strengths and weaknesses are.

I would trade a little bit of steam expertise in such a person for leadership skills in uniting personnel into one cohesive road crew.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/14 08:03 by BarSlant.

With UP's locomotives down, and the 4449 down, is 3751 the only active mainline steam in the western U.S. right now?