Steam & Excursion > NS Detroit-Fort Wayne Route

My wife and I are planning to ride the "Detroit Arrow" behind #765 between Allen Park MI and Fort Wayne IN in July. I know this route is former Wabash to just east of Fort Wayne (New Haven area), then former Nickel Plate beyond.

How much, if any, of this overall route is double track?

Thanks,

Bob Thatcher

Not much at all. Im not familiar with the line into Michigan but the Ohio and Indiana portions are single track with frequent sidings. Its common to see trains being held outside of Ft Wayne on single track waiting to get into yard. With the CP traffic north of butler i would expect to meet several trains along the trip.

Posted from iPhone

Allen Park to Bellevue. There are places where the double track was truncated into sidings and for westbound pictures it looks like double track. Have a good trip. Remember all the 611 trips on this route.

There are stretches of double track around Adrian Michigan & Montpelier Ohio. As other posts have mentioned, at one time the entire segment was double track, but was rationalized to its current configuration of segments of double track and passing sidings, moreso between Montpelier (which was the Wabash era division point) and Detroit.

Posted from BlackBerry

It was finally all double tracked between Detroit and Montpelier in the 1920s (not between Montpelier and New Haven) Much of it was single tracked in the 50s. (I'd have to look up a more specific date but it would have been probably in the late 50s.)

Regardless, the Cannon Ball and the Detroit & St. Louis Limiteds would still do 80 mph on this route on some sections.

The Arrow trains date back to the joint Wabash-PRR trains btw Detroit and Chicago via Fort Wayne started April 2, 1933 and ending in the late 40s. (I have more info on these trains that killed all Wabash Detroit-Chicago trains via the Fourth District in my book, "Railroading on the Wabash Fourth District".) When in their prime, the Arrow trains btw Detroit and Chicago were some of the fastest trains in the world, especially on the Pennsy west of Fort Wayne. It is said that the Pennsy Fireman was shoveling coal so much that he practically stood up all the way. The Pennsy had Arrow trains on other routes.

Victor Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com/



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/14 07:33 by wabash2800.

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was finally all double tracked between Detroit
> and Montpelier in the 1920s (not between
> Montpelier and New Haven) Much of it was single
> tracked in the 50s. (I'd have to look up a more
> specific date but it would have been probably in
> the late 50s.)
>
> Regardless, the Cannon Ball and the Detroit & St.
> Louis Limiteds would still do 80 mph on this route
> on some sections.
>
> The Arrow trains date back to the joint Wabash-PRR
> trains btw Detroit and Chicago via Fort Wayne
> started April 2, 1933 and ending in the late 40s.
> (I have more info on these trains that killed all
> Wabash Detroit-Chicago trains via the Fourth
> District in my book, "Railroading on the Wabash
> Fourth District".) When in their prime, the Arrow
> trains btw Detroit and Chicago were some of the
> fastest trains in the world, especially on the
> Pennsy west of Fort Wayne. It is said that the
> Pennsy Fireman was shoveling coal so much that he
> practically stood up all the way. The Pennsy had
> Arrow trains on other routes.
>
> Victor Baird
> http://www.erstwhilepublications.com/

I have seen home movies of PRR passenger west bounds at Warsaw from the 50s and they looked like they were hitting a hundred the way they flew through the scene.

Chico

I was wondering about the portion north of Fort Wayne up to Butler myself. Based on the bridges/overpasses around St. Joe which looked never to have "room" for a second track. I'm guessing that this was due to it being built relatively late in the scheme of things. (to supplement/supplant the line from Butler Logansport if I recall correctly?)


wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was finally all double tracked between Detroit
> and Montpelier in the 1920s (not between
> Montpelier and New Haven) Much of it was single
> tracked in the 50s. (I'd have to look up a more
> specific date but it would have been probably in
> the late 50s.)
>
> Regardless, the Cannon Ball and the Detroit & St.
> Louis Limiteds would still do 80 mph on this route
> on some sections.
>
> The Arrow trains date back to the joint Wabash-PRR
> trains btw Detroit and Chicago via Fort Wayne
> started April 2, 1933 and ending in the late 40s.
> (I have more info on these trains that killed all
> Wabash Detroit-Chicago trains via the Fourth
> District in my book, "Railroading on the Wabash
> Fourth District".) When in their prime, the Arrow
> trains btw Detroit and Chicago were some of the
> fastest trains in the world, especially on the
> Pennsy west of Fort Wayne. It is said that the
> Pennsy Fireman was shoveling coal so much that he
> practically stood up all the way. The Pennsy had
> Arrow trains on other routes.
>
> Victor Baird
> http://www.erstwhilepublications.com/

Posted from BlackBerry

Correct, the Butler-New Haven line was built circa 1902 as an emergency replacement once it became clear that the Wabash was going to lose the legal battle over the lease of the Eel River line. Since the rest of the Wabash system (including the Eel River) was pretty much all single track, I assume nobody saw any need for the new segment to be double tracked. My big "what if" question has always been, IF the Wabash had been able to retain the Eel River would South Whitley have become what New Haven is today once the N&W took over the Wabash and the NKP?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/14 16:00 by junctiontower.

As I mentioned, the double tracking btw Detroit and Montpelier was completed in the 1920s. I do not know what the Wabash's long term plans were but I'm sure they would have double tracked to Fort Wayne if it was needed AND if they had the resources. As you may know, there were other sections of double track west of Detroit including btw Hugo and NE at Fort Wayne and the outer limits of Peru, including Peru, Rich Valley, etc. Apparently there were plans (or a contingency) for more double track west of Fort Wayne as there are some bridge piers etc. that would accommodate another track. The Lagro bridge is an example.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/14 18:08 by wabash2800.