Steam & Excursion > Asbestos removal

I heard and unconfirmed report over the week end that the Haz Mat people have to remove the asbestos from around UP 4014 boiler before any further work can be done.

CRS

Yawn, Routine.

Though, I believe photos show this work was done a long time ago while on display at the fairgrounds, or before. There may be some left on some of the piping.

The boiler jacket and asbestos boiler insulation were removed long ago from #4014. As mentioned, there might be some on various piping, but it would be a relatively minor amount.

If the Haz Mat people are involved, it must be more than just a little. Probably not tons, but enough to be concerned about.

One wonders how many people were exposed to it during the prep work, the moves, at West Colton Shop, and now at Cheyenne Shop.

Seems somebody must have overlooked something. This should have been taken care of before they ever started turning wrenches on it in Pomona.

If they knew what to look for and where it could be expected to be.

Ya we know, it must be Eds fault.

I have been a "Certified Competent Person" in Asbestos Abatement and as such supervised Asbestos removal on several park locomotives.

Asbestos is not just found on the boiler, it is also located inside the sleeves covering the dry pipes to the steam chest and other sleeved coverings for steam pipes. These are not usually a problem until they are to be removed for refurbishment or inspection. I wouldn't make a big deal out of this at this point.

TomG Wrote:
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> Ya we know, it must be Eds fault.

Certainly glad that you realize THAT!

Lol

TomG Wrote:
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> Lol


It may be funny to you, but it sure isn't funny to those that have spent their careers on those machines that the dear leader has neglected and/or damaged !

px320 Wrote:
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> I have been a "Certified Competent Person" in
> Asbestos Abatement and as such supervised Asbestos
> removal on several park locomotives.
>
> Asbestos is not just found on the boiler, it is
> also located inside the sleeves covering the dry
> pipes to the steam chest and other sleeved
> coverings for steam pipes. These are not usually
> a problem until they are to be removed for
> refurbishment or inspection. I wouldn't make a
> big deal out of this at this point.

If you are put in the position of having to lie on
and work in small piles of it that have come out of
holes in the jacketing on various steam pipes under
and around the cab and tender, it's falling on you
in powdery form as you work, and your boss says "get
in there and get busy," does it become a big deal
then?

Actually I dont care one way or the other. I thought your comment was funny.

Has mat or abatement contractors have to be involved with any amount of asbestos. As I have learned with a project that I have going at work. If you find it you have to have it removed and disposed of by a professional.

My grandfather worked at Lima locomotive works for 22 years. He had told me there was many days that it looked like snow was falling especially if they where putting on asbestos and it was windy and they had the doors open to the erection floor. He also said the floor was always coated with white when they would put the insulation on. none of them wore dusk mask or any protection. It's amazing that he lived to be 94 years old and never got sick from it
Realist Wrote:
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> If the Haz Mat people are involved, it must be
> more than just a little. Probably not tons, but
> enough to be concerned about.
>
> One wonders how many people were exposed to it
> during the prep work, the moves, at West Colton
> Shop, and now at Cheyenne Shop.
>
> Seems somebody must have overlooked something.
> This should have been taken care of before they
> ever started turning wrenches on it in Pomona.
>
> If they knew what to look for and where it could
> be expected to be.

Posted from Android

UP6936 Wrote:
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> Has mat or abatement contractors have to be
> involved with any amount of asbestos. As I have
> learned with a project that I have going at work.
> If you find it you have to have it removed and
> disposed of by a professional.


I wonder if the fellow who commented about Haz Mat thought it was some kind of a emergency response team as that was not the case am sure. It was a certified company like someone else pointed out. Just a thought.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TomG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lol
>
>
> It may be funny to you, but it sure isn't funny to
> those that have spent their careers on those
> machines that the dear leader has neglected and/or
> damaged !
Think it was the way you jumped into it only.

Folks need to understand that there is no "small or incidental" amount of asbestos... Ya either got it or ya don't...
If ya do, certified folks remove and dispose of it... That's the law...

No legitimate company in the locomotive repair or restoration business is gonna intentionally break the law over asbestos; be it large or small... I retired from the land of "tons of asbestos"... I worked in the central station utility business on fossil power plants...UP nor anyone else will make it a policy to break the law and expose their employees or contractors to asbestos hazards...

leroy

...Like being a little pregnant...

Jim Montague
IRVINE, CA
Train and Nature photo Art

Leroy is absolutely right! Big or small, it doesn't matter.
You can have just a handful of the stuff, and if it's not
removed by a certified company, using a full-blown containment
system, you can be hit with hundreds of thousands of dollars
of fines, even if you're just a small non-profit removing one
ancient heating boiler from your building.



leroy82646 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Folks need to understand that there is no "small
> or incidental" amount of asbestos... Ya either got
> it or ya don't...
> If ya do, certified folks remove and dispose of
> it... That's the law...
>
> No legitimate company in the locomotive repair or
> restoration business is gonna intentionally break
> the law over asbestos; be it large or small... I
> retired from the land of "tons of asbestos"... I
> worked in the central station utility business on
> fossil power plants...UP nor anyone else will make
> it a policy to break the law and expose their
> employees or contractors to asbestos hazards...
>
> leroy

CZ10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leroy is absolutely right! Big or small, it
> doesn't matter.
> You can have just a handful of the stuff, and if
> it's not
> removed by a certified company, using a full-blown
> containment
> system, you can be hit with hundreds of thousands
> of dollars
> of fines, even if you're just a small non-profit
> removing one
> ancient heating boiler from your building.
>

Correct. But more disturbing is the fact that having
drug this thing all over the place, and having had it in
two shops, AND forcing employees to wallow in the stuff
while working, expect the asbestos lawyers to show up
en mass.

It's been a long time since they've had an opportunity
like this.

All insulation (...both asbestos, calcium silicate, or glass...) is encased in a covering called "lagging"... That's the boiler jacket or pipe jacket ya see that is smooth and pretty when it's new on your favorite thermal machine; be it a steam engine, turbine, or diesel... The purpose of the "lagging" is to protect the insulation and keep it from getting damaged, wet, or disturbed...

Mechanical and boiler craftsmen (...and i would think properly trained volunteers...) understand that asbestos was the best (...and many times, only...) insulating material used in industrial settings from the beginning of the steam age up thru the seventies... That means that if it's insulated and has lagging on it; it's most likely asbestos...

Asbestos, was, and still is the best thermal insulating material.... period... Those properties made asbestos almost a universal material for all high temperature insulation service until it was banned...

In the central station generating business; we reviewed drawings and repair records to see what insulating materials were used and where they were used before we started tearing any insulation out anywhere or taking anything apart... I'm sure the large steam repair shops did the same thing...

In our industry, there were no prohibitions on in-place asbestos insulation as long as it was not disturbed, but those places were mapped and identified due to the need for almost constant maintenance... Over time, all the asbestos was removed from service during routine maintenance activities, and replaced with non-asbestos insulation...

As long as asbestos is covered with lagging and properly applied, there is little danger of inhalation of asbestos fibers; as the asbestos insulation is encapsulated and is not "friable" until disturbed... "Friable" fibers are defined as those fibers in which the asbestos fibers are not bound up... "Friable" asbestos fibers can break apart from handling and float out into the air and may be ingested by breathing... Most asbestos insulation is "mudded" with an asbestos cement to keep the fibers from breaking and being 'friable"; then it is lagged with its metal covering...That makes the chance of "friable" asbestos exposure almost zero...

I'll end this little essay with some observations concerning the asbestos industry in general... No industry has been more vilified than the asbestos industry in modern times... If you listen to the tort lawyers and their accomplices in the regulatory industry; you would think that Johns-Mansville was the devil incarnate; knowingly and wantonly devouring all in their path for the almighty dollar... I don't believe this is true and neither should you...

Asbestos was known for its insulating and fireproof value from antiquity; yet there are no records of mass numbers of folks dying from asbestos exposure... Is chronic (...continual...) unprotected exposure to asbestos fibers harmful to some segment of the population..? Yes... Have the dangers of casual asbestos exposure been exaggerated to generate dollars for some segments of the legal profession...? Yes, definitely...

leroy



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/14 11:19 by leroy82646.