Steam & Excursion > AFT 1 / Reading 2101

While surfing this evening, I came across this video produced by the B&O RR Museum in Baltimore. I find it ironic that the museum would produce a video featuring a hollywood actor (and admitted railfan) about a locomotive in their collection that they have allowed to deteriorate to an unacceptable level. It is sad. You can search utube for

B&O Railroad Museum TV Network: American Freedom Train (July 2014)

I think AFT 1 deserves a better fate .....

Regards,
Burlington John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/14 23:45 by burlingtonjohn.

I don't think the Museum has a treasure chest of cash
that they prefer to keep untapped.

Lot's of restorations going on at the Museum, in addition
to a relatively new roof.

And lot's of equipment has since been brought indoors.

And at least two steam engines are operable, with another,
maybe 2, easy to be put back in action,

It would be nice to see the 2101 (AFT 1) moved up on the
priority list.

What was the deal with C&O #1309? Was that a gift to the
WMSR or was it sold with funds that can now go towards
other restoration projects?

/Mitch

Don't Get Me Started Again!
The Truth Is - The B&O Railroad Museum Is Mismanaged Period!!!

I know many folks who have tried to get them to restore various pieces of their equipment, folks who wanted to volunteer and some who wanted to get a fund raiser going only to be turned down. The American Freedom Train Locomotive (ex-Reading 2101) is one great example. A group of Reading Historical Society folks wanted to paint this engine and they were told NO.
Look at all the B&O Passenger cars rusting away. I've talked about this many times on here and nothing changes. There is money out here, there are folks interested, but the B&O R.R. Museum management is not. The roof is no longer an excuse.

I am curious, what the top people get as salaries. It might shock you. Same as at Steamtownlesstown.

ClubCar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't Get Me Started Again!
> The Truth Is - The B&O Railroad Museum Is
> Mismanaged Period!!!
>
> I know many folks who have tried to get them to
> restore various pieces of their equipment, folks
> who wanted to volunteer and some who wanted to get
> a fund raiser going only to be turned down. The
> American Freedom Train Locomotive (ex-Reading
> 2101) is one great example. A group of Reading
> Historical Society folks wanted to paint this
> engine and they were told NO.
> Look at all the B&O Passenger cars rusting away.
> I've talked about this many times on here and
> nothing changes. There is money out here, there
> are folks interested, but the B&O R.R. Museum
> management is not. The roof is no longer an
> excuse.


Is there something in water there in Baltimore? Forgive me for saying it, but if people and societies are willing to volunteer to fix up, paint and even restore to operable condition in some cases this equipment and at THEIR expense, what's the loss to the museum management!? Seems to me since they know the ratty shape some of the passenger cars, locomotives and what have you are in, the management would jump at the chance to have people want to help them maintain it.

apollo17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Is there something in water there in Baltimore?
> Forgive me for saying it, but if people and
> societies are willing to volunteer to fix up,
> paint and even restore to operable condition in
> some cases this equipment and at THEIR expense,
> what's the loss to the museum management!? Seems
> to me since they know the ratty shape some of the
> passenger cars, locomotives and what have you are
> in, the management would jump at the chance to
> have people want to help them maintain it.
As I have stated; it's the management of the museum who do NOT care regardless of what anyone else states here or anywhere else. The museum needs new leaders. Just for the record, Baltimore has fine drinking water, just poor leadership at the B&O R.R. Museum.

ClubCar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> apollo17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

> As I have stated; it's the management of the
> museum who do NOT care regardless of what anyone
> else states here or anywhere else. The museum
> needs new leaders. Just for the record, Baltimore
> has fine drinking water, just poor leadership at
> the B&O R.R. Museum.

Didn't mean anything against the drinking water in all of Baltimore. I'm sure it's fine as anywhere else. I guess it didn't come out right when I typed it up. I should have said, Has the management there completely lost their minds!!

Wasn't this brought up before - the management of the Museum and
volunteering?

Are there regulations prohibiting volunteers due to safety? Or
maybe only city employees are allowed to work on the equipment?
Or, volunteers are welcome but funds for supplies were not there
to purchase material to go along with the free labor?

Anyway - what Museums are notably better then the B&O RR Museum
and why? Is the short answer, any museum that has a relatively
small collection of equipment that has found it's full collection
finally making its way indoors?

Green Bay?
Steamtown?
IRM?
CSRM?

It would seem the "best of the best" would be those with relatively
small collections that have the resources to move their equipment
indoors. Exception might be the IRM - though, it's hard to truly
appreciate the collection as it is mostly wedged tightly spaced
indoor. On the other hand, it's in good shape, protected AND -
mostly - it gets moved outdoors on occasion for display and even
operation.

The collection at the B&O RR Museum that is indoors looks great.
And again, they DO run excursions, and several steam engines are
operational, or close to it. Seems to me the Museum is one of
the better managed out there, no?

Maybe someone needs to re-approach the museum and see if they
can start a fund drive to restore one or more pieces at a time,
as the WMSR is doing.

And again - out of curiosity, were any funds generated by the
transfer of #1309 to the WMSR?

/Mitch

apollo17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I should have said, Has the management there completely lost their minds!!

Don't think they lost them as they were never really there to begin with.

Here she is in May 2014...Very sad indeed.

---

---

Not to be the sand in the gears, but...

how bad is she? Just some surface paint?

Maybe it's time for someone with the proper
know how and time to start a fund drive for
#2101.

Safe to assume AFT livery would be the choice
of many? Reading 4-8-4's are pretty well
represented, though the Chessie livery, as
colorful as it was would be nostalgic to many.

/Mitch

hkyman16 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here she is in May 2014...Very sad indeed.

Sad is a kind word. Horrible is a better one.
An engine of this caliber and history should have a prominent place for display at the museum to begin with; not hidden behind other non-restored equipment.
It will NOT happen with the present folks running the museum.

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to be the sand in the gears, but...
>
> how bad is she? Just some surface paint?
>
> Maybe it's time for someone with the proper
> know how and time to start a fund drive for
> #2101.
>
> Safe to assume AFT livery would be the choice
> of many? Reading 4-8-4's are pretty well
> represented, though the Chessie livery, as
> colorful as it was would be nostalgic to many.
>
> /Mitch

JESUS!! How long has 2101 been sitting there? Looks like after it finished it's tour as one of the AFT Specials it was brought there to the museum and parked and been forgotten ever since. IF and it's a big if the museum were to allow it to be worked on, maybe even go as far as updating it for operation, where would be the nearest location to tow it to for rebuilding? It would really be something to see it run coast to coast again in it's AFT colors as it did decades ago during the Bicentennial celebration. Reality is, even if it were rebuilt to operate, it's not likely that you could get all the Class 1's to agree to let it run on their lines. From what you guys that are in the know are saying and the recent pics I'm seeing here of it. Just trying to get the management to let a group give it a good cosmetic restoration would be like trying to get satan to drink holy water!

Well...I bet "the management" never miss a sick day, a holiday, or a pay raise. Similar to Steamtown, everybody gets paid the same whether they restore or run steam or not. Just as long as there is plenty of toilet paper on hand in the bathrooms, and, the white parking lines are clear and freshly painted. And I thought corporate America was the way to go...

apollo17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> JESUS!! How long has 2101 been sitting there?
> Looks like after it finished it's tour as one of
> the AFT Specials it was brought there to the
> museum and parked and been forgotten ever since.
> IF and it's a big if the museum were to allow it
> to be worked on, maybe even go as far as updating
> it for operation, where would be the nearest
> location to tow it to for rebuilding? It would
> really be something to see it run coast to coast
> again in it's AFT colors as it did decades ago
> during the Bicentennial celebration. Reality is,
> even if it were rebuilt to operate, it's not
> likely that you could get all the Class 1's to
> agree to let it run on their lines. From what you
> guys that are in the know are saying and the
> recent pics I'm seeing here of it. Just trying to
> get the management to let a group give it a good
> cosmetic restoration would be like trying to get
> satan to drink holy water!

The ex-Reading 2101 operated as AFT #1 for the eastern half of the USA due to tunnel restrictions for the other 2 locomotives, including #4449. After the AFT finished its tour of duty, Ross Rowland, who owned the 2101, went to the Chessie System to see if he could make a deal to operate the engine and a special train known as the "Chessie Steam Special" to celebrate the 150th birthday of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad. He made an agreement with Chessie and the engine pulled the train over most of the B&O, C&O, and Western Maryland lines both in 1977 and 1978. After the 78 season ended, the engine was stored in a roundhouse in Ohio (I can't remember the exact one) and unfortunately the roundhouse caught fire and the 2101 along with other Chessie diesel engines and equipment were heavily damaged. Now here is the truth about the 2101. The locomotive had had some problems with one of the main drivers during the Chessie Steam Special trips in 1977 & 1978 which they were able to repair each time. However though the 2101 was heavily damaged in the fire it was never actually determined that it could not be restored for operation again. Meantime Mr. Rowland made a deal with the Chessie System to cosmetically restore the 2101 back to American Freedom Train #1 and he donated it to the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore for it to be permanently displayed. It looked great when it came back into Baltimore, towed by a diesel engine. In return for the 2101, Mr. Rowland acquired the ex-C&O "Greenbrier" engine 4-8-4 #614 and this engine was towed from the B&O R.R. Museum up to Hagerstown, Maryland where it was completely torn down and rebuilt. Then in 1980 and 1981 the 614 pulled the Chessie Steam Safety Express Train all over the Chessie Railroads and then onto the Seaboard Railroads. The former Reading 2101 has been sitting in the B&O Railroad Museum ever since 1979, not properly displayed, and just left to collect rust and what you see here is what it looks like now, another disgrace like almost everything else outside the museum, and the sad part is the museum management Does NOT Care!!! A real disgrace especially since there have been people coming forth wanting to repaint the engine and donate money towards the project. They have been turned down. The current B&O R.R. Museum Management needs to be replaced and it is up to all of you on here to support this. When you get a chance and if you can come to Baltimore, walk around the entire museum grounds and look at all the equipment sitting there rusting away. Not one B&O passenger car has been restored. However they have found the money to paint all of the ex-MARC (ex-Pennsylvania Railroad) passenger cars which they operate at the museum to look like B&O cars, being painted the famous "Royal Blue" scheme of Blue & Gray. The average person visiting the museum (not rail enthusiasts) do not know the difference. Sad, Sad, but the truth has to be told.

John in White Marsh, Maryland.

Appalachianrails Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> apollo17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mgoldman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Not to be the sand in the gears, but...
> > >
> > > how bad is she? Just some surface paint?
> > >
> > > Maybe it's time for someone with the proper
> > > know how and time to start a fund drive for
> > > #2101.
> > >
> > > Safe to assume AFT livery would be the choice
>
> > > of many? Reading 4-8-4's are pretty well
> > > represented, though the Chessie livery, as
> > > colorful as it was would be nostalgic to
> many.
> > >
> > > /Mitch
> >
> > JESUS!! How long has 2101 been sitting there?
> > Looks like after it finished it's tour as one
> of
> > the AFT Specials it was brought there to the
> > museum and parked and been forgotten ever
> since.
> > IF and it's a big if the museum were to allow
> it
> > to be worked on, maybe even go as far as
> updating
> > it for operation, where would be the nearest
> > location to tow it to for rebuilding? It would
> > really be something to see it run coast to
> coast
> > again in it's AFT colors as it did decades ago
> > during the Bicentennial celebration. Reality
> is,
> > even if it were rebuilt to operate, it's not
> > likely that you could get all the Class 1's to
> > agree to let it run on their lines. From what
> you
> > guys that are in the know are saying and the
> > recent pics I'm seeing here of it. Just trying
> to
> > get the management to let a group give it a
> good
> > cosmetic restoration would be like trying to
> get
> > satan to drink holy water!
>
> It's been the museum since the early 80s. You are
> aware of what happened to it regarding the
> roundhouse fire that caused Ross Rowland to trade
> it for C&O 614 right?
>
> From information I've found on here and other
> websites, it appears that 2101 didn't go coast to
> coast on the AFT. It appears the 4449 had that
> unique honor of pulling the train from coast to
> coast.
>
> -JE



This is right- the T-1 never went West of Chicago in the North or West of Huntsville AL in the South with the AFT. The 4449 was used everywhere West of those two places and then South from Washington DC to Miami. But if you're splitting hairs, not coast to coast in a continuous, unbroken, sense- the 2101 filled the gap between Columbus GA and Washington DC.
SR

If you're interested in this stuff, I'm posting a week to week "travelogue" of the AFT's '76 tour on the Railroaders Nostalgia page.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/14 09:00 by BoilingMan.

Appalachianrails Wrote:
-
> From information I've found on here and other
> websites, it appears that 2101 didn't go coast to
> coast on the AFT. It appears the 4449 had that
> unique honor of pulling the train from coast to
> coast.
>
> -JE

Keep in mind as I wrote on here; the SP 4449 did NOT pull the American Freedom Train from coast to coast due to many tunnel restrictions and other railroad restrictions including the fact that this engine cannot operate on the Northeast Corridor (owned by Penn Central back then and Amtrak today).
Please read my history about the 2101. Thanks.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

Actually, by the time we reached the NEC in 1976, it was a few weeks after Conrail had replaced PC. However, it was still PC when the tour began in Wilmington in April 1975.
SR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/14 09:11 by BoilingMan.

It's probably not worth trying to say anything positive about the B&O Museum in this discussion, but let's not forget that many of their most priceless artifacts had a roundhouse roof collapse on top of them in 2003. All (or nearly all) have been meticulously restored.

Just trying to present both sides of the story. I tend to think that's a useful exercise. Sorry if you disagree.

TimBo611 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's probably not worth trying to say anything
> positive about the B&O Museum in this discussion,
> but let's not forget that many of their most
> priceless artifacts had a roundhouse roof collapse
> on top of them in 2003. All (or nearly all) have
> been meticulously restored.
>
> Just trying to present both sides of the story. I
> tend to think that's a useful exercise. Sorry if
> you disagree.
I don't disagree with you about the roof collapse and the restoration of the artifacts; however there was no need to paint the stainless steel ex-MARC, ex-Pennsy passenger cars to look like B&O and let the B&O passenger cars sit there and rust in dire need of paint. Some of the cars are so corroded that they now need steel work, especially around some of the "dutch doors." This was preventable if the management had worked on them years ago, even before the roof collapse. Trust me, I know too many former volunteers who have repeatedly spoken about the poor management at the B&O R.R. Museum. These folks wanted to do certain preventable things and were told that they could not at that time. Lots of volunteers have quit and will not go back to help as long as the present folks continue to run the museum. And the loss? We all loose if the one-of-a-kind equipment is left to continue to rust away. The former Reading 2101 is a prime example.
And one last thing to remember: in comparison to many other railroads, very few passenger cars of the B&O survive anywhere today. If you don't believe me, just look around-one can verify this on the internet.