Steam & Excursion > Some Rail Fans ---

I was in a book store over the weekend and these two fellows were perusing through the latest copy of "Trains Magazine" and talking out loud about the restoration of several steam engines. I could not help but overhear their conversations and one fellow insisted that a steam engine, the former
Reading Steam Engine T-1 #2100, was going to be scrapped shortly to pay part of the owners current debt. He insisted that the creditors have taken the owner to court already and that the judge ordered the owner to sell the engine immediately, even if it means to scrap it.
While there I excused myself for over hearing their conversation and then I asked this fellow as to where did he get his information? He said that his brother works for an attorney out in Tacoma, Washington and that one of the attorneys in the office, knowing that he likes trains, told him about this situation. Has anyone else heard anything about this? I just hope that this is not true as surely the scrap value probably will not cover the entire debt.

John in White Marsh, Maryland

Mr. Payne apparently left behind quite a trail. There was a Budd Combine that was last seen moving west with the locomotive. Anyone have any info as to the whereabouts of that car? It is not with the engine in Eastern Washington state now.

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Carondelet Wrote:
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> Mr. Payne apparently left behind quite a trail.


THAT is putting it mildly! When we were in Tacoma with the 844 & 4449 doubleheader, back in 2007, we went to the office of Mr. Payne's Golden Pacific RR Co.. The door was padlocked from the OUTSIDE, with the local County Sheriff's notice, and his business card, on the door. A fellow from the next-door office came out and wanted to know what we wanted. When we told him we were "looking for Mr. Payne.", his comment was "Good luck! There are a LOT of people looking for Mr. Payne.".

I hope it doesn't end up heading for the scrap heap. Could a petition and fund raiser be started to save it if the info proves true or would it be too late by that time? If it can be saved from that fate, where could it be moved to for the time being?

apollo17 Wrote:
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> I hope it doesn't end up heading for the scrap
> heap. Could a petition and fund raiser be started
> to save it if the info proves true or would it be
> too late by that time? If it can be saved from
> that fate, where could it be moved to for the time
> being?

Your fundraiser might be required to repay ALL of Mr Payne's debts before the asset (aka the locomotive) is released.
From the sounds of it that might reach into the 7 figure range.
Good luck!

PHall Wrote:
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> Your fundraiser might be required to repay ALL of
> Mr Payne's debts before the asset (aka the
> locomotive) is released.
> From the sounds of it that might reach into the 7
> figure range.

You fundraise the money, but keep it until the locomotive is sold to cover the debt. The money can then be used to purchase the locomotive, possibly just above scrap value. The other option is to use the money to buy if from whoever purchases when it is sold. The key is to wait until the locomotive is forced sold (probably at auction) to cover the debt. NO MONEY is given until that happens. Any donated funds before would be wasted.

Martin...do you have any legal thoughts on what to do? If I had the money, I would buy her outright and ship her to Pennsylvania. If nothing else better, she belongs with the Reading Historical Society in Hamburg, Pa. Now HOW do they legally get her...a bake sale? Martin, your thoughts please.

Sure, it would be a major loss if 2100 was scrapped. However, wouldn't it be more cost-effective to put money into a cosmetic or operational restoration of one of the Reading 4-8-4s in the east?

I don't know the condition of 2102 on the Reading & Northern, but I'm under the impression that it would take far less to it bring back to operation than the 2100.

Let me know if my impression is wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/14 18:34 by RuleG.

Dave, the 2100 could be cosmetically restored for display somewhere where she belongs, not eastern Washington. Operation, a whole different question. I would hate to see any eastern steam engine scrapped. If I recall there are only four of the Reading 2100 series left. Let's try to keep them all. My New York Central scrapped ALL Hudsons and Niagaras.

Just remember that besides all the firebox "issues", poor old 2100 has a bent side rod. Any long distance moves will probably require another depressed center flat car move, which is how she moved across Canada to Tacoma.

Well Rule G...2102 is the property of Andy Muller, and the 2101 is the American Freedom Train engine. 2124 is beat, and part of the Steamtown collection. 2100 even, is the flagship of the Reading class T-1s, and the last to be in steam. At the very least, she belongs at the Reading Historical Society in Hamburg, Pa.
IMHO Tom Paine has some nerve destroying a piece of history like that. Just because you have enough money to buy an original artwork, you don't have the right to destroy it and ruin it for the rest of the world. Lets bring her back home!

For those of you interested in Reading T-1 2102, go over to the Eastern Board and look at several postings of 425's & 113's Labor Day Spectacular and a few other stories covering the Reading & Northern Railroad and there are some photos of the 2102. It is out of service right now.

Right you are ClubCar, and other than just talk, there is no real thought (or money), to get 2102 running again.

To ClubCar & Keystone1:

You both missed my point. I suggested that if there was to be a fundraising to restore a Reading 4-8-4 back to service, 2102 may be a good candidate because it would take less effort than the 2100. I have no idea whether Reading & Northern/Andy Muller would be interested in bringing the 2102 back to operation if an outside group provided money for such an endeavor. But if there was such interest and a group of fans willing to provide some funding (as with NS 611), then why not?

Anyway, to point out photos in other posts showing 2102 not in operation is a cop-out response to my suggestion. The fact that 2102 is not operating this year doesn't necessarily mean that it will never run again. The "support Steam" section of Reading & Northern's website has a couple of photos of 2102.

http://www.rbmnrr.com/steam

The lien on the 2100 is in the amount of $ 1.5 million dollars ( plus interest from 2009) so the monies realized from the scrapper won't come remotely close to covering that. My WAG is that scrapped in place she'll probably bring somewhere around $ 50,000.00 give or take.

Unless someone can convince the lien holder to donate her to a museum in that vicinity ( assumes there's one who would want her as a display piece) and that someone can raise the funds to get her moved to that location, I'm sorry to say that scrapping is probably in her future. Sure hope not, but facts are facts.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

Keystone1 Wrote:
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Now HOW do they legally
> get her...a bake sale?


Pretty simple,,,,,,pay the man that holds the lean on her his 1.5 million dollars, and she is yours. Then plan on almost another million dollars to ship it to Pennsylvania.

Well everyone, there you have it...$1.5 million plus shipping costs plus additional expenditures to bring 2100 back to operation...

How much would it cost to bring back one of the other three Reading steam locomotives to operation? I may be wrong, but I'm guessing it would cost less than $1.5 million to bring 2102 back to life.

RuleG Wrote:
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> Well everyone, there you have it...$1.5 million
> plus shipping costs plus additional expenditures
> to bring 2100 back to operation...

Well, you are off by about 2 million dollars. Why? Because one would first have to pay off the 1,5 million dollars to the lean holder! After that, one would have to ship the thing to Pennsylvania. Finally, assuming one found a shop capable of doing the overhaul, one would THEN have to pay a contractor to make it serviceable and FRA compliant. Maybe 1.5 to 2 million dollars for THAT.


> How much would it cost to bring back one of the
> other three Reading steam locomotives to
> operation? I may be wrong, but I'm guessing it
> would cost less than $1.5 million to bring 2102
> back to life.

Just my opinion, but I believe you are guessing wrong. Plus, after all that money, you would still have a locomotive with those damned Hennessy, plain bearing driver axles!

Before everyone says "Geeze, only 1.5 mil! That's less than a 2 bedroom house! Let's go get it!" -- there was another figure in the ointment: $1.5M, PLUS INTEREST, from 2009.

Anyone know what interest rate he had? Anyone know the compounding rate? You are talking 5 or 6 years interest at some unknown rate and some unknown APR, that could easily be 15% to 25% per year. I wouldn't be too surprised if the buy-off price was a lot closer to 3 mil. Then you can worry about shipping costs to New York or wherever.

I think someone would have to pony up at least a 5 bedroom house and possibly a beach view to go with it to cover the whole price.

Somehow I doubt that the judge and creditor would allow you to just assume the loan.

Trust me, Hot Water's 100% correct. Those damn lubricators are a CONSTANT issue and a royal pain in the arse. I struggled with them on the 2101 ( AFT #1) and when we traded up for the all roller bearinged 614 it was like going from Hell to Heaven !!!

Ross Rowland