Steam & Excursion > The Steve Lee "what if"?

Lets explore this in further detail and be very open minded about it.

"what if" UP actually came to its senses and said, "Hey Steve, come back." Being that Steve does not hang out here and being that many believe that UP is watching this page. Rather than beating on poor Mr. Dickins, how about we share ideas on what "good" could be done if Steve and maybe others were asked to atleast come to the table and discuss the possability of coming back.

Many have retired, some have even passed (God rest their souls). What would it really take to get UP to listen and further, who has the connections with Steve to see if he would even really do it?

Ah, yes, popcorn is done....a little salt....

TeslaWon

Interesting timing as Steve and I discussed that just this morning. I brought it up, not him and I will not share specifics but I will say that he would politely listen to what they had to say. Take that to mean he would participate in a conversation and nothing more than that. Past that, I will not comment as that was a private conversation between friends. Do not take any of this as any sort of a sign, nobody has contacted him and it isn't expected. At least he didn't say Hell No.

I hear ya Empire, they need someone who knows how to run that steam program Steve and the guys did when they replaced the old heads who also did a great job with just 844 until 1979 when 3985 rose from the dead, Ed is one of those people who're like 2 bosses I worked for, just cared for themselves and screw everyone else, and that's sad!

God bless Steve, and any of the former steam crew that are still around. I just hope that UP listens to somebody soon concerning the steam locomotives. I am very concerned that UP will put them in a park, never to be used again.

No mater what happens to UP's steam program from here out history will remember Steve Lee as it should. He is the real living legend!

As a one time CIO in several companies I was a member of the “executive staff” but my participation was limited which allowed me to be a “fly on the wall” to see how they decided things.

My best guess is that the UP steam program is finished based on what I’ve read here on TO, I have no other inside information. The cost to make the program well probably out weighs the “advertising” return that it generated in the past. Steam engines are expensive to run, that’s why the transition to diesels was so abrupt. It would take two to five years of double or tripling the budget to get it back to where it was during the halcyon years under Mr. Lee. I would be surprised if any senior manager would take that kind of proposal to the board of directors unless someone on the board that backs the steam program has enough proxy votes to drive the issue. Corporate decision making is a slow process and I expect it will take between four months and year for this to be decided. Depending on litigation, it could take even longer.

Most likely outcome is to have the three engines returned to display turn out. The steam facilities could be turned into a museum which could explain the removal of the later changes to the buildings such as the insulation from the shop bays ceiling.

A less likely outcome is that UP will offer the facilities and engines to a foundation or other non-profit to restore with or without some agreement for operation on UP tracks.

A remote possibility is that UP will follow the NS model and allow selected outside steam engines operate on UP facilities.

Returned to display? Didn't 844 hold the distinction of never having been retired from active UP duty?

Posted from Android

Such a decision would not rise anywhere near the level
of the Board of Directors.

bioyans Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Returned to display? Didn't 844 hold the
> distinction of never having been retired from
> active UP duty?
>
> Posted from Android

The complete sentence is, "Most likely outcome is to have the three engines returned to display turn out."

In the case of 844, having had the flues removed, it appears the engine was partially disassembled for repair. I assume that it would reassembled to look complete externally before being placed on display.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Such a decision would not rise anywhere near the level
>of the Board of Directors.

Normally the BoD would not be involved. But from my experience in other corporations, admittedly no where as large as the UP, decisions that may draw press interest particularly if it has the potential for negative press, the BoD will be made aware of the issue and consensus will be reached prior to the formal announcement. I agree that it is most unlikely that the UP Steam Program would be on a BoD agenda but there will be several phone calls about the issue to BoD members.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/14 11:11 by SR-RL_Nr_10.

SR-RL_Nr_10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would take two to five years of double
> or tripling the budget to get it back to where it
> was

Since you know how much money it would take to turn the program around that means you know the numbers for the current budget?

SR-RL_Nr_10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bioyans Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Returned to display? Didn't 844 hold the
> > distinction of never having been retired from
> > active UP duty?
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> The complete sentence is, "Most likely outcome is
> to have the three engines returned to display turn
> out."
>
> In the case of 844, having had the flues removed,
> it appears the engine was partially disassembled
> for repair. I assume that it would reassembled to
> look complete externally before being placed on
> display.
>
> Realist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >Such a decision would not rise anywhere near the
> level
> >of the Board of Directors.
>
> Normally the BoD would not be involved. But from
> my experience in other corporations, admittedly no
> where as large as the UP, decisions that may draw
> press interest particularly if it has the
> potential for negative press, the BoD will be made
> aware of the issue and consensus will be reached
> prior to the formal announcement. I agree that it
> is most unlikely that the UP Steam Program would
> be on a BoD agenda but there will be several phone
> calls about the issue to BoD members.
I think it is highly unlikely up is about to completely pull the plug on the steam shop. They seem to be spending money on things. Like the beautification of the back shop and round house. Maybe the plan is to yurn that stuff into a museum at some point but I would be really surprised if they dont make an effort to get 844 and then 4014 running at some point. I dont think Ed Dickens will be the guy who finishes them but I think it will probably happen. It also wouldn't come as a complete surprise if in the next year they bagged it.

jethat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I dont think Ed Dickens
> will be the guy who finishes them

Well, he has certainly "finished" poor 844!

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jethat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I dont think Ed Dickens
> > will be the guy who finishes them
>
> Well, he has certainly "finished" poor 844!

And 3985.

And a waste of money on bringing back 4014 to Cheyenne!

Well let's all remember this, stUPid. Enough said.

As a new follower to this subject, I was wondering why Steve Lee retired in the first place? I was also wondering why the Challenger has not run since 2010.

UP will not close the program down. Losing the only large locomotive never to be retired and returning 4014 back to California. To turn the progrm around Mr. Lee could return as a consultant from Wasatch Railroad Contractors and help return first the 844 then the 3985 to service. The 4014 project would have to be last thing. Mr. Lockman over the mechanical part of the program could get the crew he would need. Mr. Krenning would be good program manager. With Mr. Lockman and Mr. Lee getting the locomotives available for service. Mr. Krenning would have the task of finding an operating crew. There has to be some engineers with steam experience. I say put two fireman and two engineers up for bid. Even send them off to another railroad to become steam serrtified, I recall that being done before. I can feel a change in the air. Hope its just not a cold wind and the white stuff.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/14 23:35 by badtanker1987.

rich57 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a new follower to this subject, I was wondering
> why Steve Lee retired in the first place? I was
> also wondering why the Challenger has not run
> since 2010.


Gee, you post just like the previous posts by Argonaut and/or nighthawk. Can't you do better than this, Ed?

Emmo213 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SR-RL_Nr_10 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It would take two to five years of double
> > or tripling the budget to get it back to where
> it
> > was
>
> Since you know how much money it would take to
> turn the program around that means you know the
> numbers for the current budget?

No I don’t know the specific budget of the UP steam program.

Back in the late ‘70s, I managed a U.S. Navy steam ship propulsion system on a large amphibious ship. I observed that we spent money twice as fast in a given period of time while in a Restricted Availability as compared to normal “running repairs.” (A Restricted Availability is when a Navy ship is schedule remain pier side so that heavy repairs can be made to the ship’s machinery.) As my responsibilities increased I noted that my “two to one” budget rule of thumb held true for other Navy Ship systems as well although I developed a modifier that if a contractor is going to do the work rather than ship’s crew, the ratio increased to three to one. Much to my surprise, when I moved into the world of IT, I found the rules of thumb still useful for a quick evaluation of an unsolicited proposals, usually handed to me in the middle of a meeting. Depending on who was to do the work, if above the threshold, you went looking for the fat and if below the threshold you looked for what was left out.

Time is always front and center in project, how long is it going to take or how long before delivery. Several years ago, one of the Berks, I think it was 765, finished it’s 1472 overhaul and they put out a video in which they noted that it took 12,000 man days to do the overhaul. A good project manager always over estimates a bit, so using 15,000 man days as a guess, then it will take a 20 man shop just under three years to complete that job. (260 work days in a year times 20 = 5200 man days in a year, 15000 divided by 5200 is 2.89 years of time)

Should a new manager be brought in, the first thing that should be done is develop a preliminary Plan of Action and Milestones. So depending on exactly how much work needs to be done on 844 and what the expectations of management are for the other two engines, I would budget at a heavy repair rate for two to five years. Whether you use the two times the current budget or three times depends on how much contractor time you want to buy. Once you get a preliminary go-ahead, then the hard work starts to develop a detailed budget with real numbers (money!!) to get a final approval.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/14 07:06 by SR-RL_Nr_10.

I don't know but that seems extremely high if it's just a tube job. What else is needed on 844?