Steam & Excursion > Steam Tie Down Question

Did steam engines have hand brakes for tie downs?

Not that I've ever heard of. Usual procedure was to center the reverse lever, make sure the throttle is shut tight, open the cylinder cocks and house valves if the engine had them and chain at least one driver fore and aft.

I must admit that I have never heard of the term "Tie Down", but yes some railroads did have a "Parking Brake" or "hand brake", as some refer to them. The Southern Pacific GS-4/GS-5 class locomotives had a "Parking Brake" up on top of the tender. SP 4449 still has it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/14 13:45 by HotWater.

Do you mean the engine, or the tender? Or both?

I guess the chain must work, because several times when I saw 844 or 3985 tied down, there were no air brakes applied, just a chain and wheel chocks. When the steam is gone, and the pumps don't run, and the air leaks away in a few hours, the pistons retract and the shoes just hang there slack, instead of being held against the wheels. If coupled to equipment that does have working air or hand brakes, it would be even better/safer. But, I'm from an time and place where tieing down equipment was a long rule written in blood, and non-compliance meant your job. "Secure to the extent possible"

This question hasn't come up for awhile, but a search of posts by my old friend MTMEngineer reveals these comments

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,960703,960724#msg-960724
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,1156120,1156219#msg-1156219

-John

Hand brakes for steamers???

A deceptively reasonable question, but there's "the rest of the story".

Generally, steam locos did not use hand brakes.
Towards the end of steam loco production there were 'spotty' applications to newly manufactured locos.
All involved handbrakes applied to loco tenders.

During the steam era, from the earliest days to the mid-1950s, there were errant steamers that went through roundhouse perimeter windows (those windows opposite the steam engine inspection pits). ---
OR, ended-up in the turntable pits. Either tender first or nose first. Roundhouse foremen and the wreck masters knew they were in for "a bad day" when they came to work.

Roundhouses had the large windows and the low walls at the ends of the pits --- so that the inevitable damage to the structure was minimal --broken glass & repairing the low brick wall.
Some specific engines were prone to 'mid-night capers' and were locally known for their propensity to move on their own --- they were known as "creepers".

Why 'midnight capers'? Because, the cooling boilers tended to shrink by 1" to 3" inches -- if the throttle linkage was not designed to compensate for the shrinkage (a early planning omission...), the locos would have their throttles eased ever-so-slightly OPEN. As residual pressure built-up, [in the after-throttle steam-delivery pipes] eventually the loco would climb over the chock chains/blocks and would power itself down the track.

Soon, about 1900, the RRs installed manually opened pressure relief valves on the tops of the valve chests. This allowed any build-up of pressure to be vented before acting on the pistons.
So, when securing an engine for the night, or other quiescent period, the common saying is: "Be sure to open the 'House Valves' -- as in Round House...

Modern 'front-end' throttles often have a clearly visible 'compensating' link halfway down the boiler; as the boiler lengthens and contracts with common "expansion/contraction'-events the compensating lever keeps the throttle cam securely tight, and the throttle's poppet valves tight against their seats. some Canadian engines simply reversed the cam lever and compensated for the shrinkage in a more economical arrangement.

Modern locos tend to be very involved with a complex activation process before the engine can be easily driven. So the need for securing the engines was not a high priority or a modern day security concern. The shut-down of the steamer for short term storage involves many systems that must be turned off and drained. The idea is to conserve as much heat and steam as possible for the coming revival to regular train service--possibly the next day.

Perhaps the most complex 'movement' prior arrangement is the restoring of operating air pressure to the locos' power-control systems: the bakes and the power reverser.
Modern locos are equipped with power cylinders for securely operating the reverse mechanism's lay shafts. This shaft raises and lowers the directional link of the loco valve gear.
Typically, the lay shaft is 'centered' at lay-over hours as part of the engine securement process. Its nearly impossible to easily move the loco if the air boost system is stopped and pressure drained.

With the coming of excursion locos and attendant 'liabilities', manager-types had nightmares about evil-doers climbing into the cab and setting the Iron Horse off at a brisk gallop.
SO, many lock-up methods were employed to, supposedly, to 'tie-down' the parked locos. Probably the most common method is to apply a sturdy padlock to the throttle quadrant -- to lock it closed.
A locked portable derail is also effective. But, as we all know: "A lock only keeps an honest man, HONEST."

So the would-be vandals have a challenge in both defeating the locks and bringing the engine's 'power systems' on-line. Such endeavors produce a LOT of noise and commotion -- and takes skill & experience to arrange. The result is that it would take a person who was well experienced around steam locos to initiate a roll-away event.
Such a perpetrator would probably be known to the group responsible for the safe operation of the loco ---- and that behavior might get flagged early enough to initiate an 'intervention'...

That being said, steam operators are a very capable bunch and (almost) all run very well-managed operations.
But we must ALL take a positive, 'Safety-at-all-times' posture and be vigilant.

Maybe others have additional 'Best Practices' and strong recommendations related to this issue.
Thanks for the original Post!

Wes C.

We had a lock on the throttle quadrant, the side windows would lock and we had an accordian steel gate across the back of the cab. It wouldn't be worth the effort to get through all of that.

Ah, yes, memories of MTMEngineer. I think I remember his identity, Larry, or John.

Hello

The term "Tie Down" is very common on Class 1 railroads. I used just about every day this week.

Example

Train crew.
"Dispatcher Tie the train down we are dead is 30 minutes"

Dispatcher
"No your dog catch crew on the don't tie it down.

Chris

You "Tie down" a train or engine - secure it and leave it.

You "Tie up" a crew - leave the train, do your paperwork, and go home.

There were three hand signals that I know of for tie up. (1) By night, lantern held straight up above head upside down, (2) By day, arms extended in front of you, fists closed, thumbs up, (3) by day, making a motion with ones hands as if tying a ribbon on a Christmas package. A variation on (2) is to hold your fists in front of your mouth, thumbs up - this meant "Go to Lunch".

-John

LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You "Tie down" a train or engine - secure it and
> leave it.
>
> You "Tie up" a crew - leave the train, do your
> paperwork, and go home.
>
> There were three hand signals that I know of for
> tie up. (1) By night, lantern held straight up
> above head upside down, (2) By day, arms extended
> in front of you, fists closed, thumbs up, (3) by
> day, making a motion with ones hands as if tying a
> ribbon on a Christmas package. A variation on (2)
> is to hold your fists in front of your mouth,
> thumbs up - this meant "Go to Lunch".
>
> -John


There is one more. Extend your hands above your head, fingertips pointing to the sky with your hands together, resembling a steeple..."go to the house"

Txhighballer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is one more. Extend your hands above your
> head, fingertips pointing to the sky with your
> hands together, resembling a steeple..."go to the
> house"

And making that symbol, but rotating your body with hands moving in a horizontal arc was "roundhouse".

LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There were three hand signals that I know of for
> tie up. (1) By night, lantern held straight up
> above head upside down, (2) By day, arms extended
> in front of you, fists closed, thumbs up, (3) by
> day, making a motion with ones hands as if tying a
> ribbon on a Christmas package. A variation on (2)
> is to hold your fists in front of your mouth,
> thumbs up - this meant "Go to Lunch".
>
> -John

..............and these were the most important signs of all. LOL.

Wes C,

Good answers and history. Thanks. In the Army we would throw a blocking chain around one driver and the hostler would take it over. On the SP, blocking chains were used well into the late 70s and early 80s. They hung on a hook by the steps where the handbrake was. I think someone was thinking "Tie Down" was like a hook where you would secure freight or something on a car. The brakeman loved to hear, "Don't tie the train down". In some places they had to tie 10-20 hand brakes on a train. Not fun.

Another sign, someone missed: Hold one arm out on front and cup your glove. The other hand would make like it was shaking something into the cupped glove. Then you would rub your fist into the cupped glove. That was, "Go Pound Salt".

It took me a long time to get most of the hand signs down but when the pak-sets came out, that was an art that was lost. The nice part of hand signs, without the radio chatter, they never knew where you were and what you were doing.

Nudge



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/14 18:37 by spnudge.

I guess you can't just put it in "Park"?

This is not a great picture and I found it somewhere on the internet but look closely at the flangeless driver and you'll see a chain in front and behind the wheel.

John

---

Not to change the subject but, when I worked a yard job at 8th St. or a hostling job at Redondo, I had one conductor and A/C that refused to use the radio, hand signs only. I loved it but, the yardmaster hated it because he couldn't hear what we were doing the whole trick. These guys were old Santa Fe heads. Thanks for all the answers.

Well, I guess the fact that the Southern Pacific "larger locomotives" had parking brakes didn't seem to be acknowledged by anyone.

I also have heard of "tying the TRAIN down", but not "tying the steam locomotive down", at least on those railroads I frequented. We tended to use the term "chain her down" on the 4449 crew, as well as the previous UP Steam Crew.

Another issue with runaway locos (at least in the early days) was leaky throttles, correct? I have story in my book about a Wabash one that started moving under its power in the early 1890s at Wolcottville, Indiana and almost hit a GR&I loco at the crossing of the two railroads. (The unmanned Wabash engine went down the track about 2 miles before it ran out of steam.) I have no idea what kind of loco it was, but the RR was still under construction at the time, so it could have been one used for construction and built in the 1880s.


Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/14 09:45 by wabash2800.