Steam & Excursion > War Baby GS-6 #4468 Ready To Depart On Train #19!

A few days ago I posted a shot of a GS-1 on the head end of The Klamath (train #19). Today I thought I would show that SP also assigned the last of the GS Series 4-8-4's to this same train.

The GS-6 Class were dubbed "War Babies" because they were ordered and delivered during the height of WW-2 in 1943. Soon after delivery some of these engines were assigned to the SP Portland division. Their assignments included pulling Train 19 - The Klamath.

In this fine view we see GS-6 #4468 ready to depart Union Station in Portland, Oregon on the second section of #19. Note the valve and cylinder covers show the timing was last set on her in Sacramento on August 31, 1944.

It is hard to imagine this engine ever looked finer.


Martin



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/14 04:47 by LoggerHogger.

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Gorgeous - completely repainted to showroom-fresh after less than a year's service! Model railroaders would proclaim all of this shininess highly unrealistic, however.

-E.O.

I had seen lettering on the valve and cylinder heads before. I wondered if it meant new rings were installed. Glad to know it means timing.

That's a fine image of a classic scene. Dang, those were good looking locomotives!

They've already painted over the pilot stripping.

I understand the war-time shortages of material, but I never understood why the GS-6s weren't constructed with Mars lights, which were considered a safety appliance

Wow, show-room fresh is a good description. Great photo.

That's also a phrase for classic car restore-folks.

Love the "Lines" lettering- looks sharp!
SR

Each GS class had its own attributes. Great photo, and I really like the looks of that GS-1 you posted a few days ago.

Martin: The first of these photos is amazing because of its clarity. Thanks for posting it. Do you have the date of the photo and/or the name of the photographer?

Jerry

Beautiful Martin.

Jerry,

If I have the date or the name of the photographer I post it. Unfortunately I have neither in this case.

I too love the photo.

Martin

Re: ID on the head covers...

My suspicion is that Tomstp's [ABOVE] first-guess is the correct one.

If it WAS related to the valve timing, one date would suffice.
The fact that both the valve cover and the cylinder head covers are marked separately indicate that something specific to each assembly was done.
The BEST presumption is that one that reflects on the act of removing the two "structures" (piston and valves) --- to what end?
The typical reason for the dates is to establish a "maintenance time-line".

This could be a trial of an experiment using different ring (or different valve/cylinder bushing) materials --- so that SP may be evaluating whether the new regime lasts longer than
the typical 'set' of rings. Another factor that would be followed are things like valve oil changes, lubricator 'delivery' setting rates, etc.
The motive power boys could be tracking these variables as part of a "Continuous Improvement" program.

Very interesting photos, thanks for posting...


Note:
With Walschaerts valve gear [and Baker, too] only three components are 'engine specific: The eccentric rod, the radius rod and the union link. The pivot dimensions on the union links are NOT a critical dimension, so these may 'wander' from engine-to-engine & overhaul-to-overhaul...
All the other components are crafted to the manufacture, 'as-built' drawings, (and class-specific), jig-built components. [Critical to accurate valve setting are also valve regulating 'components' between the valve gear frames and the engineer's seat in the cab --- the quadrant mounting & 'calibration', the reverser reach-rod length, the various bell-cranks and power-assist mechanisms].

Bronze bushings, sliding link blocks, etc. are subject to wear --but when replaced they should RESTORE the valve gear to its original & square geometry -- with the 'slop' gone.
The 3 engine-specific (variable) members depend on the huge components (and varying "major distances") associated with the variance of [cast] frame's pivot points and driving box geometry,
as well as, designed driver diameter, etc.

Large locomotive frames can have large dimensional variances that are not accurately identifiable at the time the drawings are utilized -- and may not become evident until the the large farme castings are totally cooled!

So, fine tuning of the valves must be done AFTER all the engine running-gear parts are assembled.
NOW, the large crank circles, the length of the levers, and the varied points-of-tangent become critical in determining the differences in piston-volumes of the cylinders.
These 4 distinct "displacement volumes" lead to the uneven 'exhaust beat' patterns. [Another factor is variance in the volumes contained in the steam passages of the cylinder castings!).

Valve timing is the art of 'mapping' the geometry of the valve events (viewed through the port plugs --on top of the valve chests) on the As-Built loco.
The mapping procedure reveals the inherent non-symmetrical valve and piston travels --- through the 360-degree, full-cycle, of the crosshead to its starting point..

The 'art' comes-in when the machinist uses his experience and judgement to mark the affected rods for dimensional remediation. A VITAL decision in the process is determining WHICH
of the the rods To Correct and WHICH to leave alone, as well as which direction the desired alteration is applied! ---- MORE of the learned ART is becoming evident
The rods and their revised, linear, dimensions are sent to the blacksmith shop where the blacksmiths heat & beat the rods to the specified [corrected] numbers provided by the machinist.
The 'Art' is further complicated by the expansion & distortion of the lengths during the heating process, prior to hammering the subject rod to a new dimension.
The 'corrected dimension(s)' must be reached AFTER the corrected component has cooled-down --- at its normal rate, in ambient temperature surroundings.

The critical dimensional changes may only be a matter of a few thousandths-of-an-inch; but, an engine can sound lame when these numbers are even SLIGHTLY out of whack!
When the old folks talk (admiringly) about an engine as sounding "as-square-as-a-die" ---- THAT is a true salute to the skill and experience of the valve setting team.
A roundhouse with a skilled valve-setter crew was a very rare occurrence, indeed!

I LOVE to listen to a loco that has 4 distinct, and 4 EVEN beats-per-revolution.
Perfectly 'square' valve events are a geometric impossibility, at these large dimensions. SOO, getting an engine to SOUND perfectly square is The Art of Valve Setting.
That Frisco 4-8-2, fan-trip engine, is a terrific, audible, example of an engine that is AS SQUARE AS A DIE!

Wes C.

PS.
The 'die' referred to is a manufactured, hard (tool steel), thread cutting device (used for cutting external threads on a round bar).
It was a precision-manufactured component that is cut from a perfectly square steel bar.
The old dies used to be 4-sided (now they are commonly 6-sided). SO these precision thread cutting tools were carefully maintained.
The reverence for these precision tools is the origin of that 'square as a die' saying ---- regarding the absolute even BEAT of steamers' exhausts.
AND, its very true and valid praise to utter!

If you come across a skilled loco valve setter, you have gotten close to Steam Nirvana.
Learn as MUCH as you can!

The result is the ABSOLUTELY EVEN beat of the exhaust; none of that old "I THINK i can, I THINK i can" lore of the "Little Engine That Could"....
At speeds above 80-per, it sounds like a screaming jet engine! A very rare sound, indeed! The engineer's heart keeps time with his steed!

W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/14 16:30 by wcamp1472.

Wes, you should write a book. I could listen to you talk about steam for days!. I love running steam when I can, and love learning more about working on them. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us.

And, Wes probably made Don Wirth's chest stick out a bit with the comments on 1522.

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And, Wes probably made Don Wirth's chest stick
> out a bit with the comments on 1522.


Oh you KNOW it did!

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Re: ID on the head covers...
>
> My suspicion is that Tomstp's first-guess is the
> correct one.
>
> If it WAS related to the valve timing, one date
> would suffice.
> The fact that both the valve cover and the
> cylinder head covers are marked separately
> indicate that something specific to each assembly
> was done.
> The BEST presumption is that one that reflects on
> the act of removing the two "structures" (piston
> and valves) --- to what end?
> The typical reason for the dates is to establish a
> "maintenance time-line".
>
> This could be a trial of an experiment using
> different ring (or different valve/cylinder
> bushing) materials --- so that SP may be
> evaluating whether the new regime lasts longer
> than
> the typical 'set' of rings. Another factor that
> would be followed are things like valve oil
> changes, lubricator 'delivery' setting rates,
> etc.
> The motive power boys could be tracking these
> variables as part of a "Continuous Improvement"
> program.
>
> Very interesting photos, thanks for posting...
>
>
> Note:
> With Walschaerts valve gear only three components
> are 'engine specific: The eccentric rod, the
> radius rod and the union link. The pivot
> dimensions on the union links are NOT a critical
> dimension, so these may 'wander' from
> engine-to-engine & overhaul-to-overhaul...
> All the other components are crafted to the
> manufacture, 'as-built' drawings, (and
> class-specific), jig-built components. .
>
> Bronze bushings, sliding link blocks, etc. are
> subject to wear --but when replaced they should
> RESTORE the valve gear to its original & square
> geometry -- with the 'slop' gone.
> The 3 engine-specific (variable) members depend on
> the huge components (and varying "major
> distances") associated with the variance of
> frame's pivot points and driving box geometry,
> as well as, designed driver diameter, etc.
>
> Large locomotive frames can have large dimensional
> variances that are not accurately identifiable at
> the time the drawings are utilized -- and may not
> become evident until the the large farme castings
> are totally cooled!
>
> So, fine tuning of the valves must be done AFTER
> all the engine running-gear parts are assembled.
> NOW, the large crank circles, the length of the
> levers, and the varied points-of-tangent become
> critical in determining the differences in
> piston-volumes of the cylinders.
> These 4 distinct "displacement volumes" lead to
> the uneven 'exhaust beat' patterns. numbers
> provided by the machinist.
> The 'Art' is further complicated by the expansion
> & distortion of the lengths during the heating
> process, prior to hammering the subject rod to a
> new dimension.
> The 'corrected dimension(s)' must be reached AFTER
> the corrected component has cooled-down --- at its
> normal rate, in ambient temperature surroundings.
>
> The critical dimensional changes may only be a
> matter of a few thousandths-of-an-inch; but, an
> engine can sound lame when these numbers are even
> SLIGHTLY out of whack!
> When the old folks talk (admiringly) about an
> engine as sounding "as-square-as-a-die" ---- THAT
> is a true salute to the skill and experience of
> the valve setting team.
> A roundhouse with a skilled valve-setter crew was
> a very rare occurrence, indeed!
>
> I LOVE to listen to a loco that has 4 distinct,
> and 4 EVEN beats-per-revolution.
> Perfectly 'square' valve events are a geometric
> impossibility, at these large dimensions. SOO,
> getting an engine to SOUND perfectly square is The
> Art of Valve Setting.
> That Frisco 4-8-2, fan-trip engine, is a terrific,
> audible, example of an engine that is AS SQUARE AS
> A DIE!
>
> Wes C.
>
> PS.
> The 'die' referred to is a manufactured, hard
> (tool steel), thread cutting device (used for
> cutting external threads on a round bar).
> It was a precision-manufactured component that is
> cut from a perfectly square steel bar.
> The old dies used to be 4-sided (now they are
> commonly 6-sided). SO these precision thread
> cutting tools were carefully maintained.
> The reverence for these precision tools is the
> origin of that 'square as a die' saying ----
> regarding the absolute even BEAT of steamers'
> exhausts.
> AND, its very true and valid praise to utter!
>
> If you come across a skilled loco valve setter,
> you have gotten close to Steam Nirvana.
> Learn as MUCH as you can!
>
> The result is the ABSOLUTELY EVEN beat of the
> exhaust; none of that old "I THINK i can, I THINK
> i can" lore of the "Little Engine That
> Could"....
> At speeds above 80-per, it sounds like a screaming
> jet engine! A very rare sound, indeed! The
> engineer's heart keeps time with his steed!
>
> W.

Fascinating! Can you tell us of any "famous" engines that are obvious examples of not having properly set valves? Come on now!!! ;-)

Red. Just listen to videos of Cumbres & Toltec #'s 484 and 487 and 488. Their timing is bad. 489 is very nice to listen to as is 463.

Also 765 was fairly bad back in the early 90's. I believe it is much better now.

Posted from iPhone

And isn't it ironic that this beautiful, and classic machine doesn't exist anymore,
but the watertank on the roof of Albers Mill (along with the building itself) still
stands. And the building is occupied daily!

Larry Dodgion
Wilsonville, OR

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Red. Just listen to videos of Cumbres & Toltec
> #'s 484 and 487 and 488. Their timing is bad.
> 489 is very nice to listen to as is 463.


Would it not be true that a video of 1522 would provide another excellent example of properly set valves? And, what of 4449? AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA