Steam & Excursion > Russian Blue Iron effect on boilers, how?

Helo to All,

I have seen the blueish "Russian Iron" effect on steam locomotive boilers. How was the effect achieved?

Thanks in advance for any info!

Boilers?

Or boiler jackets?

Russia Iron was just that, a sheet iron made in Russia using a "secret" process to prevent raw iron from corroding. It's primary use prior to the advent of locomotive jackets was as a roofing material.

California State Railroad Museum acquired several samples of Russia Iron, some from old roofs from Sitka, Alaska and some from remnants of locomotive jackets.

Both CSRM and the Nevada State Railroad Museum have tried to recreate the process of making Russia Iron without real success. (Chris Dewitt at NSRM may be able to shed more light)

A painting process was developed at CSRM and later used at NSRM to simulate the appearance of Russia Iron on galvanized sheet steel.

The color is a medium bluish gray.

The photo shows a piece of Russia Iron taken from V&T 4-4-0 No. 12 Genoa during restoration at CSRM in 1977 or 78. This photo is included in my book about Short Line Enterprises, which I am still working on.

Each piece was stamped with the name of the person who made it.

---

Stan --
Thanks for the fascinating info. I first
heard of "Russian Iron" in Project 2472.
The '72's boiler jacket was supposedly
painted that shade of blue when she was
new to imitate "Russian Iron". I did not
know that was a secret process, nor did
I know it kept the iron from corroding.

How wonderful that the man who made
each sheet put his name on it! He must
have been very proud of what he was able
to do, and that he was able to be part of
such a very special group of men, trusted
to be able to make that iron and to be able
to keep his mouth shut about how he did it.

Too bad someone didn't tell someone how he
did it.

Wouldn't someone be able to do a
metallurgical analysis of that existing
"Russian Iron" if they had a small piece
of it,? Has anyone tried that? If so, what
did they find out? (I would think that, with
modern computers, and present knowledge
of metallurgy, someone might be able to
figure out how the Russians made that
"Russian Iron".) TIA!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/14 12:02 by Margaret_SP_fan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_iron. Try this link, it explains it some more.

Excellent suggestion Margaret!

This falls into the same category of the Pennsylvania Railroad "Brunswick Green" color. In fact, extensive research revealed that the actual later-day Dark Green Locomotive Enamel paint was an effort to duplicate the original locomotive chemical treatment, which was "sort-of-a paint" consisting of various chemical compounds, including copper, which after applied to the freshly shopped locomotive, at a definite "green" tint to it. As the "paint" weathered, it also tended to change color, probably as a result of the copper preservative compound. The age old "wives tale" of DGLE being a 55 gallon from of black paint with a quart of green added, was not accurate.

I would also like to learn more about that "Russian Iron" sheeting, and what chemical or metallurgical process was used to preserve the steel.

As I have been told. The Russia Iron process was known to only a few people. The secret was lost at the time of the Russian Revolution and no small amount of effort has gone into duplicating it with extensive chemical analysis being done on samples of the original. It's not just a matter of knowing what chemicals or compounds were used, but how they were used, under what temperatures and pressure conditions.

Also, the name was applied as a form of quality control. If the maker screwed up, they knew who to punish.

I don't think it was a very glorious job to have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/14 12:43 by px320.

Stan --
Thanks for the further info. I know that merely
knowing the chemical composition of a piece of
metal is not at all enough -- ya gotta know HOW
it was treated after it was made. I kinda thought
that the Russian Revolution had been responsible
for destroying that knowledge. Darn! At least
people are still trying to find out how to make it.

tomstp --
Thanks! Shoulda tried Wikipedia. Fascinating!
It is hard to believe that any oxide process
would ever be able to produce a glossy surface
that would not flake, even when bent. I didn't
know that people claimed to have been able to
make real "Russian Iron" here in the US -- but,
apparently, not really successfully. Wikipedia is
far from being a reliable source of information.

HotWater --
Thanks for the compliment.

I am no techie type about any of this stuff --
just someone who loves learning the fascinating
details about how stuff is done and how stuff works.
When I turned into a railfan in the mid-70s, I became
fascinated by the details of how everything worked
I finally understood Scotty on "Star Trek" -- "The
Trouble with Tribbles" -- when he thanked Captain
Kirk for confining him to quarters after starting a fight
with the Kingons because one of them had called his
beloved Enterprise a "garbage scow". He said he could
then catch up on his technical journals. I find such
things fascinating, too!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/14 12:51 by Margaret_SP_fan.

From The Pacific Coast Narrow Gauge website.

Definition:

A high-grade, smooth, glossy sheet iron, not liable to rust; once made by a process that was long a secret with Russian manufacturers. The sheets were subjected to severe hammering in piles with powdered charcoal between them.

This name is applied to sheet iron of very highly polished or glazed surface also known as planished iron. It is used for protecting the lagging of engines and boilers and for other uses where a non-corroding black iron of finished surface is desired. These sheets are made by piling together about fifty pickled sheets of soft steel with powdered charcoal sprinkled between adjacent sheets. The pile is wrapped in old sheets, wired and heated in a furnace to a cherry-red heat for about 6 hours. Upon cooling, each sheet is swept free of loose charcoal and is then sprayed with steam to form a thin oxide. Again the sheets are piled together, heated and then placed on the hammer table, several in a bundle, and pounded with a steam hammer. This brings about a grinding action which grinds the carbon and oxide on the surface down to a highly polished coating.

From: An Elementary Outline Of Mechanical Processes | by G. W. Danforth - 1912.

Cheers,
Jack

Jack's quote is actually from an 1888 issue of Engineering & Mining Journal. Here is the page at Pacific Narrow Gauge, with lots of photos:

http://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=/ref/russiairon/index.htm

That issue of E&MJ from December 1888 is available via Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books/about/Engineering_and_Mining_Journal.html?id=HtA2AQAAMAAJ

The article that describes "The Manufacture of Russian Sheet Iron" is on page 461.

Also, the other source quoted on the Pacific Narrow Gauge site, a book published in 1912 by the U. S. Naval Institute, is available via Archive.org. Look on page 164:

https://archive.org/stream/elementaryoutlin00danfrich#page/160/mode/2up/search/russia

Don Strack

africansteam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From The Pacific Coast Narrow Gauge website.
>
> Definition:
>
> A high-grade, smooth, glossy sheet iron, not
> liable to rust; once made by a process that was
> long a secret with Russian manufacturers. The
> sheets were subjected to severe hammering in piles
> with powdered charcoal between them.
>
> This name is applied to sheet iron of very highly
> polished or glazed surface also known as planished
> iron. It is used for protecting the lagging of
> engines and boilers and for other uses where a
> non-corroding black iron of finished surface is
> desired. These sheets are made by piling together
> about fifty pickled sheets of soft steel with
> powdered charcoal sprinkled between adjacent
> sheets. The pile is wrapped in old sheets, wired
> and heated in a furnace to a cherry-red heat for
> about 6 hours. Upon cooling, each sheet is swept
> free of loose charcoal and is then sprayed with
> steam to form a thin oxide. Again the sheets are
> piled together, heated and then placed on the
> hammer table, several in a bundle, and pounded
> with a steam hammer. This brings about a grinding
> action which grinds the carbon and oxide on the
> surface down to a highly polished coating.
>
> From: An Elementary Outline Of Mechanical
> Processes | by G. W. Danforth - 1912.
>
> Cheers,
> Jack

Jack knows everything, and everyone knows Jack! :)

Thanks for the very interesting read.

Planished iron was used as jacketing on Texas & Pacific engines. When it was used the jackets were painted with light russia paint. Paint chart specified that if regular steel was used for jacketing it would be painted "boiler gray", no paint number or manufactuer was listed on the chart where as the light russia was Charles R Long company #162.

It is interesting to look up "planished iron" on the net.

Compare the description of producing Russian Iron coating to the description of (gun) bluing that can be found at Wikipedia.

Without knowing more about real Russian Iron, it sounds like it was a form of hot bluing, that may also have involved some additional bit of passivization to help reduce rusting. However, note that boilers were wiped down by engine wipers, and they tended to use oily rags. Gun bluing prevents guns from rusting, but only if they are kept oiled. Quite possibly there was a lot in common in the processes.

Sounds like the "Russia Iron" process was rather labor-intensive--which would discourage manufacturers in the US from using the traditional process.

But remember that many 19th century mechanized processes were merely the result of applying automatic machinery and a little thought to a process that was previously done by hand. Early telescope lens grinders differed little from the hand grinding process, other than using some form of power and reciprocating machinery for the power in the grinding process.

In the case of taking a stack of plates, dusting coal between them, and then whacking them by hand, no doubt the attempt would be to take a (larger) stack of plates, dust them the same way (by hand, initially) and then beat them with some form of powered hammer. If that worked, the next step would be to build an automatic dusting machine and a washer after the hammer and put in a conveyor belt.