Steam & Excursion > Steam Engine Brake Hose Question

On most railroad cars and equipment including diesel engines and electric motors, the brake hose is on the right side or open side of coupler side as you face the equipment. However, on practically all steam engines I have seen, the brake hose is on the left side or knuckle side of the coupler as you face it. My question is why is the brake hose placed on the opposite side on the front of steam engines? It is in the usual (right hand) position on the tender.
ALLEN

When you're standing facing the end of a piece of railroad equipment the brake hose will always be to your right. The exception is the front of locomotives, steam, electric, or diesel, where the hose and valve may be optionally placed on the engineers side (to the left of an observer facing the end of the engine). The thinking is that a person working on the ground making connections will normally be working on the engineers side, and placing the air hose valve on the engineers side is safer and simpler for the ground man.

Incidentally, the valve at the connection of the pipe and the hose is called an "angle cock", and is open to allow air flow when the handle is parallel to the pipe and closed when turned perpendicular to the pipe. However, when the brake hose connection on the front of a locomotive is on the engineers side, it is common to use a cock with the valve perpendicular to the pipe when open, and parallel to the pipe when closed. (Except for angle cocks, it is standard railroad practice to have the handle parallel to the pipe when closed.)

-John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/15 13:01 by LarryDoyle.

LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you're standing facing the end of a piece of
> railroad equipment the brake hose will always be
> to your right. The exception is the front of
> locomotives, steam, electric, or diesel, where the
> hose and valve may be optionally placed on the
> engineers side (to the left of an observer facing
> the end of the engine). The thinking is that a
> person working on the ground making connections
> will normally be working on the engineers side,
> and placing the air hose valve on the engineers
> side is safer and simpler for the ground man.
>
> Incidentally, the valve at the connection of the
> pipe and the hose is called an "angle cock", and
> is open to allow air flow when the handle is
> parallel to the pipe and closed when turned
> perpendicular to the pipe. However, when the
> brake hose connection on the front of a locomotive
> is on the engineers side, it is common to use a
> cock with the valve perpendicular to the pipe when
> open, and parallel to the pipe when closed.
> (Except for angle cocks, it is standard railroad
> practice to have the handle parallel to the pipe
> when closed.)
>
> -John
JOHN
Thanks for the response. Your first paragraph answered my question. It is basically for safety purposes.
ALLEN

Great question and an answer for a decades old puzzle to me.

And yet I've seen photos of engines with the hose on the fireman's side. Go figure.

And usually, a cut-out cock will have a line on the handle to indicate the status of the valve. Parallel to the pipe is open and perpendicular is closed.

Palhoghead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And usually, a cut-out cock will have a line on
> the handle to indicate the status of the valve.
> Parallel to the pipe is open and perpendicular is
> closed.


Not in all cases. One must look closely at the top of the valve that the handle is affixed to. There will be a straight through line, and a line at 90 degrees to there straight through line. In many cases the valve handle on steam locomotives is OFF when parallel to the brake pipe, and ON when turned perpendicular to the brake pipe. It is very important that the operator look for that line imposed into the top of the valve stem/handle.

Jack,

I think you have mistaken the port marks on the trainline angle cock with the the port marks on a diesel's MR cock.
The tee - shaped mark indicates a port tell -tale that blows (warns) when a pressurized line is connected.

A simple angle cock should have a simple straight line for a port mark, with no warning port.

W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/15 18:20 by wcamp1472.

>Parallel to the pipe is open and perpendicular is closed.

You're confusing "regular industry" usage with RR practice, and the RRs came first.

This is LarryDoyle's point: in the world of RRs since the 1870s/1880s, perpendicular to the pipe = open, parallel = closed. The only exception that immediately comes to mind is the dead engine feature cut-out cock of 6-ET/14-EL/etc.

Angle cock handles have always been just the opposite to this convention.

And, yes, both types are marked on the top of the key (the flimsy new style have a mark on the pressed steel handle). A circle on the top of the key means the top end of the key is sealed with an O-ring.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack,
>
> I think you have mistaken the port marks on the
> trainline angle cock with the the port marks on a
> diesel's MR cock.
> The tee - shaped mark indicates a port tell -tale
> that blows (warns) when a pressurized line is
> connected.
>
> A simple angle cock should have a simple straight
> line for a port mark, with no warning port.
>
> W.

You are probably correct, Wes. I was going by what I remember how the front brake pipe valve is on 4449, i.e. parallel to the brake pipe is CUT OUT, and turned 90 degrees is OPEN.

On cut-out cocks which have locking handles, like the MU hoses on a diesel, the mark is raised and cast into the handle in the area over the top of the key. This is true for both vented and non-vented cut-out cocks, at least according to WABCo's part catalogue 3216-40 Sup 6, dated 3-1969. It doesn't show any "T" markings for side-vented cut-out cocks.

Many, but not all, railroads installed the forward brake hose on the engineer's side of the locomotive. Most diesel switch locomotives also had the front brake hose and valve on the engineer's side too.

As stated before, it was convenience of the brakeman...he didn't have to reach over the coupler to open the angle cock (and risk serious injury by being pinched by the couplers) or climb over to the fireman's side.

Generally switch engines have the front angle cock and hose on the engineer's side which sometimes makes it difficult to make the air without kinking one or both hoses until the air is cut in. Road units generally are piped like freight cars and both hoses go under the drawbar with the glad hands somewhat centered.

When our GMD1 1413 arrived one of the first things we did was to remove the snowplows (just rains here in Oregon) and re-plumb the front trainline to the engineer's side for simplicity and safety.

Dick Samuels
Oregon Pacific Railroad

I've seen a few switch engines that had brake hoses on both sides of the coupler.

>.he didn't have to reach over the coupler to open the angle cock

Which was usually against the rules.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Parallel to the pipe is open and perpendicular is
> closed.
>
> You're confusing "regular industry" usage with RR
> practice, and the RRs came first.
>
> This is LarryDoyle's point: in the world of RRs
> since the 1870s/1880s, perpendicular to the pipe =
> open, parallel = closed. The only exception that
> immediately comes to mind is the dead engine
> feature cut-out cock of 6-ET/14-EL/etc.
>
> Angle cock handles have always been just the
> opposite to this convention.
>
> And, yes, both types are marked on the top of the
> key (the flimsy new style have a mark on the
> pressed steel handle). A circle on the top of the
> key means the top end of the key is sealed with an
> O-ring.


I didn't word my statement properly. I meant when the line on the handle, (not the handle itself) is parallel to the pipe, it indicates the cock is open.
And that is the opposite of "regular industrial" practice. My dad was a plumber and this would have driven him nuts.

>when the line on the handle, (not the handle itself) is parallel to the pipe, it indicates the cock is open.

Yes. When the line on the handle is parallel to the pipe, the cock is open; when perpendicular to the pipe, closed. This is because the mark represents the internal passage inside the moveable part of the valve (the "key" in WABCo terminology). This is true for both RR and "regular industry".

>And that is the opposite of "regular industrial" practice

The different between RR practice and "regular industry" practice is the mark's orientation with respect to the handle's long dimension. With RRs, the mark is perpendicular, giving rise to "[handle] across the pipe = open": with "regular industry" it is parallel, giving rise to "[handle] across the pipe = closed". RR angle cocks and special cases like the dead engine feature and safety control cut-out cocks follow "regular industry" practice, and all have that mark to show passageway orientation.

I recall that the ICC report on a boiler explosion in I think Texas, found among other things that the cab steam pressure gage had two cutout cocks in series with it. One had to have the handle parallel and the other then handle across the line to be open. They suggested that it would be safer to have both cocks indicate in the same direction when open.