Steam & Excursion > Trade Schools and Steam

I know this may sound like I've gone off the deep end, but I wonder if any Trade School anywhere in the US would have enough student enrollment if they offered a course in Steam Locomotive Maintenance and Servicing? I'm talking about more than just welding and fabricating and using shop tools and equipment, but actually covering everything from front to back, top to bottom of a steam locomotive and how they operate and how to work on them with class room and hands on experience. Could a trade school possibly partner with a museum or tourist railroad that already has working steam or soon will? Maybe something like this already does exist. If the program had a course instructor like Hotwater, Realist, Wescamp and others here that know all the intricate workings of steam, the course would be a success I'm sure. There's plenty of steam right now that's either running or in the process of being brought back. There's museums and tourist railroads that need or will need a new generation to maintain them if they're to continue running into the future so that's why I decided to post this question. I'll say this, if a trade school offered that, I'd sign up in a heartbeat.

My thoughts as a current student in advanced manufacturing and fabrication: most guys my age (25) who have any appreciation for machines have a little sparkle in the eye when I explain anything rail related to them and a steam locomotive would be right up the ally for anyone who loves machines. Like a lot of things though most of the public is unaware of railroads or think of them as off limits so it might take some grass roots efforts to put the word out about such a program, I know I would sign up in a heartbeat, but for the others in my age bracket, I'd say show them that if it were on a class 1 they could earn a good living and find the work extremely rewarding and for a museum that they would be part of making history come alive. One thing I've noticed lately: gear heads care, you only need to tell them.

Posted from iPhone

Last weekend I went to the Science Museum of Minnesota with grandkids. One in college, one high school. One of the exhibits is a transparent working model of a one cylinder single stroke steam engine, with boiler and condenser. It also has an indicator which graphs the steam pressure, and the operator is given controls to regulate admission pressure, cutoff, and condenser - the effects can be seen on the graph. It powers a generator connected to incandescent bulbs, so the power output is also visible. Kids (and adults) love it, and there's not a moment when someone isn't didling with it.

It's based on and industrial design, but just like a locomotive improper throttle/valve settings results in a "pound"!

Wish I'd taken a picture.

I really believe a program COULD be created. I couldn't do it myself because I don't have the extensive knowledge that some here on this discussion board do, but I'd be a willing student and ready to learn. We have a huge pool of knowledge on steam right here on this forum, but think of the countless others that aren't on here that have the same knowledge and would make great instructors in the class room and in the field for students. As Frame-5 said....show them they can make a good living at it with a Class 1 or help awaken one from a decades long slumber in a museum or tourist railroad and a trade school program for steam locomotives could succeed.

A few thoughts:

Most steam operations are completely volunteer. Anyone who wants to get an education in steam locomotives can get it for free, instead of paying for it. Unless you're like me and 300 miles from active steam, this is the best choice.

At the same time, there's very little opportunity to earn a living working on steam. UP, the narrow gauge railroads in Colorado, Grand Canyon, Strasburg and Steamtown are the only places I know of where someone can make a living working on these machines. In some of those places, they bring in someone who has experience in certain crafts (machining, welding) and are taught specific needs for the job. If one wanted to make steam a job, learning a specific trade while volunteering at an operation would be the best way to go about it, IMHO.

Your return on investment is not very good as most of the jobs out there don't pay very well. There are some exceptions, but the outlook for spending all the money to get schooled only to find you are making $13 an hour makes a program not very feasible. You are better off getting industrial skills training and applying that knowledge to what you really want to do.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

webmaster Wrote:
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> Your return on investment is not very good as most
> of the jobs out there don't pay very well. There
> are some exceptions, but the outlook for spending
> all the money to get schooled only to find you are
> making $13 an hour makes a program not very
> feasible. You are better off getting industrial
> skills training and applying that knowledge to
> what you really want to do.

It's one of those vocations that you do because you love it...broke and happy :) Or have a high-earning spouse to support your habit. :D

Mike Massee
Tehachapi, CA
Photography, Railroading and more..

I would think more along the lines of manufacturing a miniature (live steam) locomotive in the class. Focusing on the machining, welding, assembly and everything else involved. At the end of the year the loco is auctioned off and funds go toward next years locomotive. In my school district the vocational school builds a house each year and they always bring in good money.

One thing I wonder about is where the next crop of mainline engineers is going to come from. World of difference between puttering around on your local tourist line tea kettle versus pounding the main with a Northern or Berkshire at track speed traveling hundreds of miles a day. Or maybe not.

There IS a big difference, but I don't think this is going to be that much of a problem. I think the overall decline in help at volunteer tourist operations and even some of the mainline steam operators is the more imminent threat.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/15 11:21 by flash34.

unseenthings Wrote:
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> One thing I wonder about is where the next crop of
> mainline engineers is going to come from. World of
> difference between puttering around on your local
> tourist line tea kettle versus pounding the main
> with a Northern or Berkshire at track speed
> traveling hundreds of miles a day. Or maybe not.

Or not. Basic steam skills are basic steam skills. Having done both, a short line with 1.5% grades can be harder than breezing along in ATC/CTC territory.

Paying steam shops that I'm aware of are satisfied with tech school grads. YMMV

Slid_Flat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> unseenthings Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One thing I wonder about is where the next crop
> of
> > mainline engineers is going to come from. World
> of
> > difference between puttering around on your
> local
> > tourist line tea kettle versus pounding the
> main
> > with a Northern or Berkshire at track speed
> > traveling hundreds of miles a day. Or maybe
> not.
>
> Or not. Basic steam skills are basic steam skills.
> Having done both, a short line with 1.5% grades
> can be harder than breezing along in ATC/CTC
> territory.

I completely disagree!

>
> Paying steam shops that I'm aware of are satisfied
> with tech school grads. YMMV

If you are referring to the UP at Cheyenne, how well has THAT process worked out for them?

Might have worked out pretty well if they had had a manager.

Remember how steam shops (or any shops) worked a hundred years ago? You hired a boy of about 12-15 years old as an engine wiper. (It wasn't illegal to expose those under 21 to work in those days.) The engine wiper was told in about 5 minutes how and where to wipe. If he did this sufficiently diligently to keep from needing repeated instruction, he then had time to watch the people working around him. And learn. After a while he could move to apprentice pipe fitter or the like. By the time he was in his early 20s he could be a journeyman, or possibly have wangled a job on an engine crew.

The trick here is there needed to be people around that knew what they were doing and could teach those right out of school (who therefore believed that they had learned all there was to know) that they didn't know everything, and taught them how to use their skills in the real world.

No knowledgeable teachers, no learning. A bunch of blind mice bumbling around eating the woodwork and breaking things, because there was nobody to tell them how to do it right. Not their fault for not knowing that, straight out of school.