Steam & Excursion > 8444 Shots From the Archives

I can't remember the dates when 8444 and 4449 were on display at Los Angeles Union Station for an anniversary celebration of the depot. These three shots were taken as 8444 and 4449 returned home to Cheyenne and Portland, respectively.

1. The classic "race" up Cajon Pass. I know this shot has been posted before by others, but this is from a little different perspective. 4449 was making a lot of extra smoke due to force firing account some sub-standard fuel.

2. Entering Afton Canyon. This shows the brand new SD-60M and one of UP's classic E-9's.

3. 8444 barking her way up Cima Hill near Cima. Looks like Steve and Lynn are doing their usual slick work. Miss those guys. Cima Hill is 20 miles of 2.2% grade between Kelso and Cima. This is on a part of the UP between Yermo and Las Vegas.

Enjoy a little bit of history, and as always, comments welcome.

Brian Black
Retired SP/UP Conductor

---

---

---

Was that in '89?

Wow Brian Very nice Photo's I Love the Cima Hill shots .


Have A Great Day !

Dave C. Dodds
UPHS Member #3282
WPRM Life Member #361
San Dimas CA

Amazing stuff!! The last shot looks like the E unit is doing it's share of the work.

BSB

May of 1989.

Posted from iPhone

5-8-1989

Thanks guys for clarifying the date.

Brian

Great photos Brian. I was firing for Steve on that portion of the trip. It wasn't long after that first photo the 4449 came up with a hot bearing alarm and had to stop and check the locomotive. Yes, that was the 50th anniversary of LAUPT. Another neat event was when they recreated the famous photo with the UP and SP E;s and SF F next to each other. That was a fun trip. The only other trip that was more impressive was the trip we made to Ontario for the UPHS convention in the early 90's with the Challenger and the full compliment of UP E's. I got some great videos and shots on that trip. We did the two round trips to Barstow that trip.
"Thanks for the Memories" Brian

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

I think at the time of this trip the 951 was the only E on their roster. It was still a pure E-9.

tehachcond Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 1. The classic "race" up Cajon Pass. I know this
> shot has been posted before by others, but this is
> from a little different perspective. 4449 was
> making a lot of extra smoke due to force firing
> account some sub-standard fuel.

> Enjoy a little bit of history, and as always,
> comments welcome.
>
> Brian Black
> Retired SP/UP Conductor


The "true story" on why 4449 was smoking so much:

1) The fuel truck with the "special" California mandated low sulphur, high BTU oil, broke down and never showed up prior to our departure from LAUPT. We only were going to Colton Yard for an over-night stay and the SP folks said they would give us fuel there at the Diesel Pit.

2) Upon arrival at Colton Yard, we left the passenger cars, and moved over to the Diesel Servicing facility. While some of the guys serviced 4449, the SP Manager asked how much diesel fuel we needed. Doyle and I both looked at each other, and inquired if they had any old/used diesel engine lube oil. The Manager heard the words "lube oil" and quickly response, "Sure, no problem!" and off he went to instruct a Foreman what he wanted done. Shortly two Laborers showed up and asked where we wanted the oil loaded. I took them up on top of the tender, and showed them where the round hatch cover was for the oil bunker, at which point they both looked at each other. The promptly climbed back down to the ground and disappeared. Within 10 minutes they were back with "new instructions"! We were to take on diesel engine lube oil from the supply hose, which would reach the top of the tender. Good grief man, you mean NEW, FRESH LUBE OIL?????? Yup!

3) We hauled a diesel fueling hose up to the top of the tender, and then the diesel engine lube oil hose, up to the top of the tender. Mixing the two, we took on about 2500 gallons of lube oil, and about 2500 gallons of diesel fuel. The tender was full, right to the 6000 gallon mark on the dip-stick. Obviously the most expensive load of fuel we have ever taken on!

4) Fast forward to the ascent on Cajon Pass. George Lavacot was the Fireman on duty that morning, Doyle was naturally Engineer, and I was the "extra crewman", which we always did on long road trips. It didn't take long for George to discover that the mixture of diesel fuel and fresh lube oil was causing smoke as well as sooting the flues, so in order to maintain 300 psi boiler pressure, I had to sand her out VERY often, i.e. every few minutes. I positioned myself on the edge of the sand box, right next to George's feet, and whenever George tapped me on the shoulder, I would run a few scoops of sand through the peep-hole. End result was, a steady boiler pressure of 300 psi plus a steady volume of thick black smoke! I guess the photographers loved it.

5) Upon arrival at Bakersfield, that evening we discovered the entire inside of the firebox was coated with a grey metallic looking substance. I was summoned by Doyle to look at THAT!!!! What the hell happened in there? Well, all that nice fresh brand new engine lube oil has all sorts of chemical compounds necessary for EMD turbocharged diesel engines, not to mention that over-running clutch in the EMD turbo. Thus, some of those pretty expensive "special compounds" in that lube oil did NOT burn, and wound up coating the inside of the firebox. Nothing to worry about, as when we return to burning regular #5 power plant oil, all that crap will be burned away by the time we reach Fresno for our next layover.

#1 and #3: Wow.

Best regards,

Rob L.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tehachcond Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > 1. The classic "race" up Cajon Pass. I know
> this
> > shot has been posted before by others, but this
> is
> > from a little different perspective. 4449 was
> > making a lot of extra smoke due to force firing
> > account some sub-standard fuel.
>
> > Enjoy a little bit of history, and as
> always,
> > comments welcome.
> >
> > Brian Black
> > Retired SP/UP Conductor
>
>
> The "true story" on why 4449 was smoking so much:
>
> 1) The fuel truck with the "special" California
> mandated low sulphur, high BTU oil, broke down and
> never showed up prior to our departure from LAUPT.
> We only were going to Colton Yard for an
> over-night stay and the SP folks said they would
> give us fuel there at the Diesel Pit.
>
> 2) Upon arrival at Colton Yard, we left the
> passenger cars, and moved over to the Diesel
> Servicing facility. While some of the guys
> serviced 4449, the SP Manager asked how much
> diesel fuel we needed. Doyle and I both looked at
> each other, and inquired if they had any old/used
> diesel engine lube oil. The Manager heard the
> words "lube oil" and quickly response, "Sure, no
> problem!" and off he went to instruct a Foreman
> what he wanted done. Shortly two Laborers showed
> up and asked where we wanted the oil loaded. I
> took them up on top of the tender, and showed them
> where the round hatch cover was for the oil
> bunker, at which point they both looked at each
> other. The promptly climbed back down to the
> ground and disappeared. Within 10 minutes they
> were back with "new instructions"! We were to
> take on diesel engine lube oil from the supply
> hose, which would reach the top of the tender.
> Good grief man, you mean NEW, FRESH LUBE OIL??????
> Yup!
>
> 3) We hauled a diesel fueling hose up to the top
> of the tender, and then the diesel engine lube oil
> hose, up to the top of the tender. Mixing the two,
> we took on about 2500 gallons of lube oil, and
> about 2500 gallons of diesel fuel. The tender was
> full, right to the 6000 gallon mark on the
> dip-stick. Obviously the most expensive load of
> fuel we have ever taken on!
>
> 4) Fast forward to the ascent on Cajon Pass.
> George Lavacot was the Fireman on duty that
> morning, Doyle was naturally Engineer, and I was
> the "extra crewman", which we always did on long
> road trips. It didn't take long for George to
> discover that the mixture of diesel fuel and fresh
> lube oil was causing smoke as well as sooting the
> flues, so in order to maintain 300 psi boiler
> pressure, I had to sand her out VERY often, i.e.
> every few minutes. I positioned myself on the edge
> of the sand box, right next to George's feet, and
> whenever George tapped me on the shoulder, I would
> run a few scoops of sand through the peep-hole.
> End result was, a steady boiler pressure of 300
> psi plus a steady volume of thick black smoke! I
> guess the photographers loved it.
>
> 5) Upon arrival at Bakersfield, that evening we
> discovered the entire inside of the firebox was
> coated with a grey metallic looking substance. I
> was summoned by Doyle to look at THAT!!!! What the
> hell happened in there? Well, all that nice fresh
> brand new engine lube oil has all sorts of
> chemical compounds necessary for EMD turbocharged
> diesel engines, not to mention that over-running
> clutch in the EMD turbo. Thus, some of those
> pretty expensive "special compounds" in that lube
> oil did NOT burn, and wound up coating the inside
> of the firebox. Nothing to worry about, as when we
> return to burning regular #5 power plant oil, all
> that crap will be burned away by the time we reach
> Fresno for our next layover.

Thanks Hotwater. Good thing you had a full box of flue sand.

Brian

And that explains why the bearings got hot in the 1ST place since you guys lost 90 minutes (I was in the 8TH Grade at the time and kept my ears peeled on listening to 4449 since the principal thought she came through Sunday) and later reading Railfan and Railroad about it including how you guys had to get a helper at Mojave! Here's what a friend of mine told me about that was that you guys stopped on purpose and I gave him a look since when a train stops unexpectedly in a place it shouldn't stop, somethin' is defiantly wrong!

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And that explains why the bearings got hot in the
> 1ST place since you guys lost 90 minutes


OK, please explain how the mixture of new diesel lube oil and diesel fuel caused an axle bearing to overheat?

(I was in
> the 8TH Grade at the time and kept my ears peeled
> on listening to 4449 since the principal thought
> she came through Sunday) and later reading Railfan
> and Railroad about it including how you guys had
> to get a helper at Mojave!

Sorry, but we did NOT get a "helper at Mojave.

Here's what a friend of
> mine told me about that was that you guys stopped
> on purpose and I gave him a look since when a
> train stops unexpectedly in a place it shouldn't
> stop, somethin' is defiantly wrong!

What was your friend smoking?

Ok, I don't know but I do remember hearing about bearing problems and I saw in a pic in that same issue of Railfan and Railroad that you guys had a diesel added somewhere, that's all I know Jack and I don't know man, just I know he said that and I agrued with him about it and it still bugs me at times about what he was thinking! Anyway the 1St question, I don't know, I mean you guys had bearing problems which was what I heard when guys were forced to stop around the bend from Hiland!

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I don't know but I do remember hearing about
> bearing problems and I saw in a pic in that same
> issue of Railfan and Railroad that you guys had a
> diesel added somewhere, that's all I know Jack and
> I don't know man, just I know he said that and I
> agrued with him about it and it still bugs me at
> times about what he was thinking! Anyway the 1St
> question, I don't know, I mean you guys had
> bearing problems which was what I heard when guys
> were forced to stop around the bend from Hiland!

Yes, we did have an axle bearing with elevated temperature, so we stopped and re-packed that oil celler,then continued on to Bakersfield.

Ok, wonder why SP then had you guys get an engine at Mojave, that's kinda a mystery now!

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, wonder why SP then had you guys get an engine
> at Mojave, that's kinda a mystery now!

For dynamic braking down grade into Bakersfield.

Ok, thanks Jack!