Steam & Excursion > UP 844 comes to the rescue!

Back sometime in the 90's I saw on the History Channel I believe it was where a train was stalled because one of the diesels went down. The 844 was somewhere not far behind and eventually after some back and forthing with dispatch 844 was cleared to push on the rear of the stalled train while pulling it's own. Does anyone remember that?

apollo17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back sometime in the 90's I saw on the History
> Channel I believe it was where a train was stalled
> because one of the diesels went down. The 844 was
> somewhere not far behind and eventually after some
> back and forthing with dispatch 844 was cleared to
> push on the rear of the stalled train while
> pulling it's own. Does anyone remember that?


Yes!

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> apollo17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Back sometime in the 90's I saw on the History
> > Channel I believe it was where a train was
> stalled
> > because one of the diesels went down. The 844
> was
> > somewhere not far behind and eventually after
> some
> > back and forthing with dispatch 844 was cleared
> to
> > push on the rear of the stalled train while
> > pulling it's own. Does anyone remember that?
>
>
> Yes!

If I am remember right didn't the diesel on an UPS train went down and the 844 was out on a test run so the 844 pulled the down diesel and the UPS train?

Posted from Android

Is there video of that somewhere? As I know, the answer is yes. Where could it be viewed?

badtanker1987 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > apollo17 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Back sometime in the 90's I saw on the
> History
> > > Channel I believe it was where a train was
> > stalled
> > > because one of the diesels went down. The 844
> > was
> > > somewhere not far behind and eventually after
> > some
> > > back and forthing with dispatch 844 was
> cleared
> > to
> > > push on the rear of the stalled train while
> > > pulling it's own. Does anyone remember that?
> >
> >
> > Yes!
>
> If I am remember right didn't the diesel on an UPS
> train went down and the 844 was out on a test run
> so the 844 pulled the down diesel and the UPS
> train?

First, it was definitely NOT a "UPS train". It was a very long & heavy westbound manifest train and only one of the diesel units (and SD40-2) kept tripping the ground relay, and after so many automatic ground relay resets, the ground relay finally locks out. End result was, their very long and heavy train stalled on the east side of Archer Hill, once the whole train was finally on the grade.

Second, 844 was NOT "out on a test run", but was returning after a lengthy outing down south someplace (too long ago to remember all those details, since one long trip tends to run into anor long trip in my memory bank).

The DVD about 844's rebuild and return to service used to be available on the UP Souvenir car, and the scene in question is toward the end of that "Steam Crew produced" DVD. I don't know how folks purchase items from the current UP Steam Souvenir store, or if there even is a store anymore.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> badtanker1987 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HotWater Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > apollo17 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Back sometime in the 90's I saw on the
> > History
> > > > Channel I believe it was where a train was
> > > stalled
> > > > because one of the diesels went down. The
> 844
> > > was
> > > > somewhere not far behind and eventually
> after
> > > some
> > > > back and forthing with dispatch 844 was
> > cleared
> > > to
> > > > push on the rear of the stalled train while
> > > > pulling it's own. Does anyone remember
> that?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes!
> >
> > If I am remember right didn't the diesel on an
> UPS
> > train went down and the 844 was out on a test
> run
> > so the 844 pulled the down diesel and the UPS
> > train?
>
> First, it was definitely NOT a "UPS train". It was
> a very long & heavy westbound manifest train and
> only one of the diesel units (and SD40-2) kept
> tripping the ground relay, and after so many
> automatic ground relay resets, the ground relay
> finally locks out. End result was, their very long
> and heavy train stalled on the east side of Archer
> Hill, once the whole train was finally on the
> grade.
>
> Second, 844 was NOT "out on a test run", but was
> returning after a lengthy outing down south
> someplace (too long ago to remember all those
> details, since one long trip tends to run into
> anor long trip in my memory bank).
>
> The DVD about 844's rebuild and return to service
> used to be available on the UP Souvenir car, and
> the scene in question is toward the end of that
> "Steam Crew produced" DVD. I don't know how folks
> purchase items from the current UP Steam Souvenir
> store, or if there even is a store anymore.


The DVD is STILL available as I purchased one in September from them (UP). It took awhile to get but that DVD along with the one on the 3985 is some of the BEST video I've ever seen on the two UP steamers. The 844 DVD goes into great detail about the firebox rebuild also. I think it's about $25 or $30 each. The Archer Hill push is only about 5-10 min. long.

Here's a short description from Bob Krieger, steam crew retired.


"Yes, we were returning from a Kansas trip when we got behind a stalled freight just east of Burns, WY. We called the dispatcher to see about backing up to the previous crossover to get around him but traffic there was too heavy eastbound. After a bit I consulted with Steve Lee about helper assist and he said go for it. Well when we talked to the dispatcher he said we couldn't because we were a steam loco, WHAT????
Steve cell phoned someone at the Harriman and soon we were taking out the front coupler and tieing onto the rear end of the stalled freight. I have never heard 844 work that hard and it was awesome. One of our fan videographers captured the whole event all the way to Archer.
The stalled freight had 2 GE's (working) and one SD40-2 (low loader) so that was why the long, heavy freight stalled. We got it up to about 22 mph when the crew called the dispatcher and notified that they were about to run out of time. So we had to stop about Hillsdale and start all over with a fresh crew. At one point the dispatcher called them to see how they were doing and they said 8th run 22 mph. Then he asked what run I was in on 844 and I said 42nd to the sounds of silence on the air.
Jack Wheelihan was firing for me and we did some readings and calculations. We used 52 gallons of fuel a mile, approx 550 gallons of water and based on formula later determined that 844 was producing 4400 hp.
Bob Krieger
Cheyenne"

From this thread about 7 years ago:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1766517,1767953#msg-1767953

Good memories guys! Actually there were two incidences where the 844 rescued a stalled freight. HOTWATER described the first one. Bob Krieger said the engine was at peak performance as she pushed hard on that long drag. The sound was amazing and Bob even captured the wheels slipping right as she approached his camera!

Badtanker1987 is also correct. Lynn invited me along for a break-in run with the 844 to Lasalle. A UPS train with a single SD-60M broke down. I believe the 844 was behind it and ran around it at Nunn. The 844 then pulled it to Lasalle where the UPS train was able to pick up another unit to continue on to Denver.

I have a picture of it somewhere. Unfortunately I don't have a good way of scanning negatives or prints. It was published in TRAINS but I do not remember the issue. I will look when I get home and get back with you.

**imrl beat me to a post. Thanks for the clarification. I thought Bob was videoing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/15 10:55 by AlaskaGP49.

RFD TV has shown both programs on their "Trains and Locomotive" show that airs Mondays at 5pm Central. It's Directv channel 345, not sure about other TV providers

There was 2 different occasions one was Nov 4th 1996 844 was returning home when they met a stalled freight I believe they were 2 dash 8s 9111, 9122 and a sd40-2 3222 which were east of cheyenne the 844 helped push the stalled train over archer hill.
The second event took place July 8th 1998 nunn colorado the 844 was on a test run to Lasalle Colorado and assisted a stalled single engine (sd60) ups train the 844 only pulling a single water bottle coupled to the front of the sd60 and hauled the mail!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/15 15:42 by bankshotone.

Steve Lee sent a phone message to me of the Archer push with the sound and said, "Ok Bromley, listen to this!" It was impressive.
JB

I had a photo of that in RAILFAN-RAILROAD Magazine, I was at the curve between Durham and Archer. The slide was never returned. Jim Boyd called me about it and apologized for losing it, and it was good for a 2-hour conversation with him about all things railroad. He said they made back-up scans of all the photos sent to them, and at the time they were low-resolution, but that copy is what ended up being printed in the magazine. At the end of that I was not happy the slide was lost. Then he didn't even pay to use it! === === = === JLH

It was in late 1996, not 1990, when the 844
pushed that stalled heavy (11,000 ton) fright
up Archer Hill. I know this because the 844 was
returning to Cheyenne from the "Southern Scenic"
excursion in 1996. (St. Louis-Little Rock-Kansas
City) I was a Passenger Services Host on that
trip, and the 844 pulled our train from St. Louis
to Little Rock, with the 3 E units. The E units took'
the train from Little Rock to KC because there was
at least one bridge between Little Rock and KC that
was not strong enough for the 844's tender -- let alone
the 844.

HotWater wrote an excellent article on the Archer Hill
shove for Railfan & Railroad. I have that issue around
somewhere.

I later saw the UP 9111 in Stockton at the tower site
during on Winterail dinner break. I think I was the
only one there who was aware of the significance of
the 9111.

HotWater ---
You are an excellent writer! A really good wordsmith.
Please share more of your RR stories with us.

Thanks Margaret. I was pretty sure that that rear end helper event was NOT 1990, too.

The date of the 844 NPST (North Platte-Stockton) shove was November 4, 1996. the computer copy of my photo that was lost apparently by Mr. Boyd was on Page 50 of the March, 1997 RAILFAN & RAILROAD Magazine. Wish I had a video camera going then - I had never heard 844 sound quite as authoritative as it did that day, and I have listened to it since 1972. It was WORKING! === === = === JLH

highgreengraphics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The date of the 844 NPST (North Platte-Stockton)
> shove was November 4, 1996. the computer copy of
> my photo that was lost apparently by Mr. Boyd was
> on Page 50 of the March, 1997 RAILFAN & RAILROAD
> Magazine. Wish I had a video camera going then - I
> had never heard 844 sound quite as authoritative
> as it did that day, and I have listened to it
> since 1972. It was WORKING! === === = === JLH

As Fireman, I can definitely attest to that! The cylinders were so hot, that the very small valve oil lube line leak really had the smoke rolling off that left side cylinder.

AlaskaGP49 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good memories guys! Actually there were two
> incidences where the 844 rescued a stalled
> freight. HOTWATER described the first one. Bob
> Krieger said the engine was at peak performance as
> she pushed hard on that long drag. The sound was
> amazing and Bob even captured the wheels slipping
> right as she approached his camera!
>
> Badtanker1987 is also correct. Lynn invited me
> along for a break-in run with the 844 to Lasalle.
> A UPS train with a single SD-60M broke down. I
> believe the 844 was behind it and ran around it at
> Nunn. The 844 then pulled it to Lasalle where the
> UPS train was able to pick up another unit to
> continue on to Denver.
>
> I have a picture of it somewhere. Unfortunately I
> don't have a good way of scanning negatives or
> prints. It was published in TRAINS but I do not
> remember the issue. I will look when I get home
> and get back with you.
>
> **imrl beat me to a post. Thanks for the
> clarification. I thought Bob was videoing.

Michael, Thanks for bringing up this break in run to LaSalle Colorado and back. We got to Speer and had to let a one unit UPS train head south ahead of us. I had John, the asst. Wyo. Div. superintendent sitting behind me. The UPS train got about one mile south of Speer and "The" unit died. The came to a stop and started it again. On they went with us in their shadow following on their block. They went (downhill) about another 5 miles and the unit died in dynamics operation. After another 2 restarts the DP dispatcher said he would head them in at Nunn. He had a northbound grain train he will head in at LaSalle and have them come up with their power to rescue them. I talked with John as that grain train was at least an hour away from arriving at Nunn. He chatted with the dispatcher and we got permission to pick up the disabled UPS train and take it to LaSalle to meet the grain train for a working unit. Well we picked up the UPS train behind our head end and grabbed our train and headed south. We got to LaSalle as the grain train was just heading in the clear. We got out of the way and turned our train as the UPS train got a good unit and headed south. With John's help they turned us loose ahead of the north bound grain train and we hightailed it home. It was a couple of weeks later we got a nice letter from Omaha thanking us for our help and that the UPS train made it's Denver connection.
Just another reason to feel proud of our steam locomotives.

Jack was correct about the assist of the train from Burns, Wy to Archer with the 844. And thanks to the friend who posted my earlier account of that adventure. What wasn't brought up was that the dispatcher had visited us when on display in Council Bluffs earlier and he argued with me that we did not have a couple on the front of the engine because he didn't see one there when he visited us.

And so life goes on. Thanks again for the memories.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/15 17:36 by Bob3985.

Copy19 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Lee sent a phone message to me of the
> Archer push with the sound and said, "Ok Bromley,
> listen to this!" It was impressive.
> JB

John is soooo right. Steve was standing on the cab apron with his cell phone in the air and had a smile greater than the Cheshire cat. It was an excellent experience. As mentioned earlier I dipped the oil tank and took a water reading at Burns before starting the big shove and repeated the measurements at Archer after we cut off and thus came up with those figures plus Jack took them to EMD for a translation through formulas that EMD used to convert railroads to purchase Diesels where they came up with the 4400 horsepower.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

What kind of horsepower are we talking about? Indicated, locomotive drawbar, drawbar at the rear of the tender, or...? At 22 mph, I would think it would have to be IHP. 844 would likely develop 4,000-4,400 DBHP at 40 mph or so.

feltonhill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of horsepower are we talking about?
> Indicated, locomotive drawbar, drawbar at the rear
> of the tender, or...? At 22 mph, I would think it
> would have to be IHP. 844 would likely develop
> 4,000-4,400 DBHP at 40 mph or so.


Jack will have to answer your question.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY