Steam & Excursion > 611 Runby Tour Proposal

I rode behind the 611 once years ago from Alexandria, VA to Charlottesville and back.  It was a great trip!  I hung out the vestibule the entire trip, was covered with soot, had a great planned photo runby with photo line and plenty of opportunities to photograph 611 in Charlottesville.

Unfortunately, now that I've read the 611 trip descriptions I see that there are no photo runbys and you can't leave the train for most trips at the far end.  They say that you should be able to see the engine through the window and your best chance to photograph her is to get to the station early to see it back the train to the platform.

Of course the other option is to just chase the train to photograph it.  I could still buy a ticket to support the train.  However I have another idea.

What if the VMT provided tickets for a bus that would take the riders to the best photo runby locations for the trip and setup photo lines at each location?  They would know the location of the train at all times.  Maybe they could have a police escort to get around the railfan car caravans.  This would guarantee quality pictures and support the trip.

What do you think? 

Didn't they recently advertise a photo event just for the purpose you are talking about?  Photo runbys on "public" trips are typically a disaster anyway. Far too much talking, no set line, and way too many non-serious photographers (daisy pickers) etc. Further, won't those public trips have a diesel tucked in behind? If that's the case, why bother?  For me, the only option acceptable is for (hopefully) someone like Pete Lerro or John Craft to organize a proper private photo charter with authentic equipent (preferably solid maroon passenger) with a limited number of serious participants over preferrably two days to justify cost of travel to the event. Pricy I'm sure but you get what you pay for. Mitch, if you read this, how about suggeting this to Pete if you haven't already.

I'm looking forward to buying my tickets tomorrow for the first weekend of trips with 611. Do I wish there was a runby? Yeah, it'd be nice. I imagine with the security these events already command though that eventually if you make them too much trouble they'll go away entirely.

Plus, the trips you mentioned are the Norfolk Southern trips - meaning 611 could run other places throughout the year. I mean 765 is basically an engine for hire so why not 611? Take a small shortline or something and they might be more willing to do some runbys.

Emmo213 Wrote:
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> I'm looking forward to buying my tickets tomorrow
> for the first weekend of trips with 611. Do I wish
> there was a runby? Yeah, it'd be nice. I imagine
> with the security these events already command
> though that eventually if you make them too much
> trouble they'll go away entirely.
>
> Plus, the trips you mentioned are the Norfolk
> Southern trips - meaning 611 could run other
> places throughout the year. I mean 765 is
> basically an engine for hire so why not 611? Take
> a small shortline or something and they might be
> more willing to do some runbys.

I can't think of a short line that could handle the 611. At least not in the states surrounding Virginia.

Great map John.  Thanks for pointing out the location of the position light signals.

Michael Allen

andersonb109 Wrote:
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  Photo
> runbys on "public" trips are typically a disaster
> anyway. Far too much talking, no set line, and way
> too many non-serious photographers (daisy pickers)
> etc. Further, won't those public trips have a
> diesel tucked in behind?

"A disaster?"  Not in my experience.  While not every photo run-by in which I've participated yielded great photos, most have been well-executed.

As for a diesel in the consist, unless the passenger cars all match and are painted in colors original to the railroad and time period associated with the steam locomotive, (rarely the case, now), a diesel doesn't greatly diminish my enjoyment of the run-by.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Didn't they recently advertise a photo event just
> for the purpose you are talking about?  Photo
> runbys on "public" trips are typically a disaster
> anyway. Far too much talking, no set line, and way
> too many non-serious photographers (daisy pickers)
> etc. Further, won't those public trips have a
> diesel tucked in behind? If that's the case, why
> bother?

No wonder railfans get such a bad reputation.  Here you have a fairly rare event this days, a mainline steam trip, and railfans still complain about "diesel tucked in behind" and "non-serious photographers" that are preventing them for attending.  I am shocked any railroad would even bother with a steam excursion these days, given the complaining some fans do, the nightmare it must be for the employees dealing with the three-ring circus that usually follows mainline steam trips and the liability.

I used to chase steam trips in the 70s and 80s.  It was way too dangerous with the speeding cars trying to get in front of the train far enough to get a good photo location.  Having staged photo runbys as part of the trip solved those problems along with being able to photograph the engine at the halfway destination.

The opposite of that was a few years ago when I chased the Cumbres and Toltec after a snow storm.  My wife and I rode the trip the day before and it had snowed that day and through the night.  There was 6-12" of snow the next day.  We chased it from Chama.  At most there were 10 cars chasing plus the train moved slowly making it very easy to stay ahead of it.  It was a great day!

611 will be running all by her lonesome self for most of these trips.

765 will likely run solo for the Ft. Wayne trips.

4501 will run with no help on the trips for TVRM's railfest to Cleveland, TN.

 I'd bet that 765 will pick-up a heritage diesel somewhere, because of the very long dead-head moves this summer.  It is very time-consuming to have to load coal along the way, so having the hertiage unit do some of the work will allow 765 to travel much further in a day.

mdogg Wrote:
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>  I'd bet that 765 will pick-up a heritage diesel
> somewhere, because of the very long dead-head
> moves this summer.  It is very time-consuming to
> have to load coal along the way, so having the
> hertiage unit do some of the work will allow 765
> to travel much further in a day.

Deadhead moves, yes. Probably no diesel on formal passenger trips.

Here's some of the issues that exist with the proposal: 1. Are there any locations that are acceptable for stopping the train, safely unloading those that are going to want to participate in the event, and accommodate a number of buses that participants can safely be loaded on? 2. If said locations exist - and are privately owned, who negotiates for the use of said locations? 3. How is liability for the location addressed? 4. Who covers the cost of the busses? And so on.
It's a different era now, the days of runbys, open window cars and open vestibules are long gone- for a multitude of good reasons. Be thankful that the opportunity as it exists, does exist.

Posted from iPhone

MSchwiebert Wrote:
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> Here's some of the issues that exist with the
> proposal: 1. Are there any locations that are
> acceptable for stopping the train, safely
> unloading those that are going to want to
> participate in the event, and accommodate a number
> of buses that participants can safely be loaded
> on? 2. If said locations exist - and are privately
> owned, who negotiates for the use of said
> locations? 3. How is liability for the location
> addressed? 4. Who covers the cost of the busses?
> And so on.
> It's a different era now, the days of runbys, open
> window cars and open vestibules are long gone- for
> a multitude of good reasons. Be thankful that the
> opportunity as it exists, does exist.

Some excellent points. Don't forget that on double track locations, the train traffic on the OTHER track must also be held in the clear. 

Also, obtaining permission from the Dispatcher to make a reverse movement, then proceed forward past the photo line, and then making ANOTHER reverse movement to pick up the passengers, really ties up the whole damned railroad!

MSchwiebert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's some of the issues that exist with the
> proposal: 1. Are there any locations that are
> acceptable for stopping the train, safely
> unloading those that are going to want to
> participate in the event, and accommodate a number
> of buses that participants can safely be loaded
> on? 2. If said locations exist - and are privately
> owned, who negotiates for the use of said
> locations? 3. How is liability for the location
> addressed? 4. Who covers the cost of the busses?
> And so on.
> It's a different era now, the days of runbys, open
> window cars and open vestibules are long gone- for
> a multitude of good reasons. Be thankful that the
> opportunity as it exists, does exist.
>
> Posted from iPhone

I worked the Southern trips out of Alexandria for several years in the early 80s, including 611's return to service.  If memory serves (and it frequently doesn't these days) we did a runby at Marshall on trips to Front Royal.  Wide open, easy on and off, and easy access for cars as well.  On at least one of those trips I did ground crew which involved setting up the runby location, staking the photo lines, etc.  The locals were out in droves, including kids with lemonade, scout troops selling their wares, and plenty of folks who couldn't afford the tickets or make the journey to the end points getting immersed in a very cool rail event, much more so than they could if the train just blew by at track speed.

If they can't do that anymore out of liability or interruptions to freight operations, well that's just a shame.  A runby is more than an opportunity for foamers to try and get that perfect shot (and complain because they can't), it's an opportunity to slow the day down, get some fresh air, and experience what it may have been like in a little town way back when these big steamers we so love were working the rails and charging through carrying people and things to and from far away places.

Besides, the runbys give excursion crews opportunities they don't have when the train is just hauling a$$ (see photo below).  

Pics from either 1982 or 1983, trips from Alexandria:
1) On the return from Charllettesville on one of my ground crew days, where I was able to get ahead of the train and wait on a light bridge over the tracks.  I swear the bridge lifted a bit as she went under.
2) Our volunteer crews provided the utmost in personal service to the fair-paying public.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/15 15:31 by rustys6004.

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Oh I've been workin on the railroad ... I want your job

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kingman Wrote:
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> Oh I've been workin on the railroad ... I want
> your job

Oh how I miss those trips.  I remember they were getting people signed up to work them and asked us to pick the ones we wanted to work.  I asked if there would be an issue if I wanted to work all of them, and the organizers looked at each other and said "well OK then!".  That year Southern ran for three weekends out of Alexandria, with two trips per weekend and a Friday run to boot.  I worked all seven.  Over a three summers I was fortunate enough to make the runs to Charlottesville, Front Royal, Shenandoah (my personal favorite), and even Hagarstown (a lloonngg day).  611 was the star, but there were other engines in the mix too.  A pair of matched Southern F7s if I remember correctly, and some other steamers I just can't recall.

I always wondered what happened to this guy.  He was a hoot.  Member of the Washington DC Chapter NRHS I think.

He looks like he enjoys his work. Very helpful young chap.

After watching yesterday's live video of 611 moving around the Spencer yards it just drove home the point that organized runbys are needed.  Ideally the 2016 trips will have them.