Steam & Excursion > 4014

What do the people in Pomoma think about what is happening or rather not happening to 4014?

wp1801 Wrote:
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> What do the people in Pomoma think about what is
> happening or rather not happening to 4014?

Guess you have to ask them, right?

Why, won't it be running shortly?

Out

callum_out Wrote:
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> Why, won't it be running shortly?
>
> Out

Now THAT is funny!!!!

That is a good question. The CA group got what, a deisel, a caboose and a boxcar, and promise of rides when the 4014 comes to CA (if ever....) was money also exchanged?

I guess they could ask for it back......

Posted from iPhone

wp1801 Wrote:
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> What do the people in Pomoma think about what is
> happening or rather not happening to 4014?

The members I talked to a few weekends ago truly believe that 4014 will come back in steam to Pomona. They felt Ed was a sincere, personable person that was committed to the steam program. 844 will be back in steam by the end of the year, 4014 will be next, ending with 3985. When I explained what was going on in Cheyenne, the members just kept telling me what Ed had told them. They heard the rumors, but didn't comment on them.
Maybe they don't want to believe Rail giants made a really bad decision. Just my opinion, not based on any comments made by any members.
But as I was told, UP has seven years to make 4014 operational, or they will have to return it to Rail giants. Well see, I guess.

needles_sub Wrote:
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> wp1801 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What do the people in Pomoma think about what
> is
> > happening or rather not happening to 4014?
>
> The members I talked to a few weekends ago truly
> believe that 4014 will come back in steam to
> Pomona. They felt Ed was a sincere, personable
> person that was committed to the steam program.
> 844 will be back in steam by the end of the year,
> 4014 will be next, ending with 3985. When I
> explained what was going on in Cheyenne, the
> members just kept telling me what Ed had told
> them. They heard the rumors, but didn't comment on
> them.
> Maybe they don't want to believe Rail giants made
> a really bad decision. Just my opinion, not based
> on any comments made by any members.
> But as I was told, UP has seven years to make 4014
> operational, or they will have to return it to
> Rail giants. Well see, I guess.

It sounds like the folks in Pomona made a great decision.  They didn't have the resources to return the 4014 to operation so why not let UP try.  Hopefully UP will pull it off but if not the worst case sounds like the 4014 would be gone from Pomona for 10 years.  This is realistically the only chance we'll have at returning a Big Boy to operation so why not give it a try?   We owe the folks in Pomona a big thank you for what they have done here.

needles_sub Wrote:
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> wp1801 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What do the people in Pomoma think about what
> is
> > happening or rather not happening to 4014?
>
> The members I talked to a few weekends ago truly
> believe that 4014 will come back in steam to
> Pomona. They felt Ed was a sincere, personable
> person that was committed to the steam program.
> 844 will be back in steam by the end of the year,
> 4014 will be next, ending with 3985. When I
> explained what was going on in Cheyenne, the
> members just kept telling me what Ed had told
> them. They heard the rumors, but didn't comment on
> them.
> Maybe they don't want to believe Rail giants made
> a really bad decision. Just my opinion, not based
> on any comments made by any members.
> But as I was told, UP has seven years to make 4014
> operational, or they will have to return it to
> Rail giants. Well see, I guess.

Wow.  Talk about divorced from reality!  

Rumors?  

Can't fix stupid.

Milwaukee Wrote:
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> needles_sub Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > wp1801 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What do the people in Pomoma think about what
> > is
> > > happening or rather not happening to 4014?
> >
> > The members I talked to a few weekends ago
> truly
> > believe that 4014 will come back in steam to
> > Pomona. They felt Ed was a sincere, personable
> > person that was committed to the steam program.
> > 844 will be back in steam by the end of the
> year,
> > 4014 will be next, ending with 3985. When I
> > explained what was going on in Cheyenne, the
> > members just kept telling me what Ed had told
> > them. They heard the rumors, but didn't comment
> on
> > them.
> > Maybe they don't want to believe Rail giants
> made
> > a really bad decision. Just my opinion, not
> based
> > on any comments made by any members.
> > But as I was told, UP has seven years to make
> 4014
> > operational, or they will have to return it to
> > Rail giants. Well see, I guess.
>
> It sounds like the folks in Pomona made a great
> decision.   They didn't have the resources to
> return the 4014 to operation so why not let UP
> try.  

Assuming for the moment that the "folks in Pomona"
could have restored 4014, where would they have run
it?  Everybody knows UP's policy about steam they don't
own and control. 

> Hopefully UP will pull it off but if not
> the worst case sounds like the 4014 would be gone
> from Pomona for 10 years.  This is realistically
> the only chance we'll have at returning a Big Boy
> to operation so why not give it a try?   We owe
> the folks in Pomona a big thank you for what they
> have done here.

They haven't done anything yet.

> But as I was told, UP has seven years to make 4014
> operational, or they will have to return it to
> Rail giants. Well see, I guess

They might as well ask for it back. If the deal was 7 years that is NOT going to happen at this rate. At this rate it will be more like 20 years before it gets done with all the things that are perfectly fine the DL has to re-do, rebuild, and take apart just to put back together again.
CS

 

I dont believe there is a time constraint. UP now owns 4014. What they do with it is there own business. I'm sure they promised to bring it back when it gets done. Whenever that is. Rail Giants is never getting it back. While I havent seen paperwork it just wouldnt make sense for the company to agree to that.

jethat Wrote:
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> I don't believe there is a time constraint. UP now
> owns 4014. What they do with it is there own
> business. I'm sure they promised to bring it back
> when it gets done. Whenever that is. Rail Giants
> is never getting it back. While I haven't seen
> paperwork it just wouldn't make sense for the
> company to agree to that.

The members I talked to said the railroad didn't want to agree to this, but Rail giants pushed for and got this stipulation. If the railroad didn't agree to this, they were not going to get the 4014. Again, just what I was told. Don't know if it is true, but all five members were very adamant about this being in the agreement.

needles_sub Wrote:
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> jethat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't believe there is a time constraint. UP
> now
> > owns 4014. What they do with it is there own
> > business. I'm sure they promised to bring it
> back
> > when it gets done. Whenever that is. Rail
> Giants
> > is never getting it back. While I haven't seen
> > paperwork it just wouldn't make sense for the
> > company to agree to that.
>
> The members I talked to said the railroad didn't
> want to agree to this, but Rail giants pushed for
> and got this stipulation. If the railroad didn't
> agree to this, they were not going to get the
> 4014. Again, just what I was told. Don't know if
> it is true, but all five members were very adamant
> about this being in the agreement.
Well if its true there gonna have to pick up the pace. If they want to keep it. At the current rate there is no way its finished in 5 years.

I seriously doubt the existence of such an agreement in writing.
It sounds too much like dl's brand of happy talk.

Would loved to be proved wrong, though.

Posted from Android

So, did anyone bother to ask what the penalty is if UP doesn't return the 4014? It's not like there is some repo agency for steam locomotives ready to tow the engine back.

I'm sure whatever the penalty is, it is much cheaper than returning the engine cold.

Defective_Detector Wrote:
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> So, did anyone bother to ask what the penalty is
> if UP doesn't return the 4014? It's not like there
> is some repo agency for steam locomotives ready to
> tow the engine back.
>
> I'm sure whatever the penalty is, it is much
> cheaper than returning the engine cold.

What makes you think there is a "penalty"? Personally, I don't believe any of this crap about the California folks getting the 4014 back, if UP "defaults". I don't think there really is any such provision in any such "contract". The UP traded for the 4014, and the museum folks accepted the "trade", period,,,,,,end of story!

HotWater Wrote:
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> Defective_Detector Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So, did anyone bother to ask what the penalty
> is
> > if UP doesn't return the 4014? It's not like
> there
> > is some repo agency for steam locomotives ready
> to
> > tow the engine back.
> >
> > I'm sure whatever the penalty is, it is much
> > cheaper than returning the engine cold.
>
> What makes you think there is a "penalty"?
> Personally, I don't believe any of this crap about
> the California folks getting the 4014 back, if UP
> "defaults". I don't think there really is any such
> provision in any such "contract". The UP traded
> for the 4014, and the museum folks accepted the
> "trade", period,,,,,,end of story!
I agree. UP owns the engine out right. Maybe the rail giants guys are trying to deflect resposiblity or what ever. No way does UP ship that engine back. If they dont get it running it will sit in the round house for decades.

jethat Wrote:
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> I agree. UP owns the engine out right. Maybe the
> rail giants guys are trying to deflect
> resposiblity or what ever. No way does UP ship
> that engine back. If they dont get it running it
> will sit in the round house for decades.

I don't think the RailGiants folks knew what was going to transpire, so I'm going to refrain from passing judgement on what they did. No doubt they had very good intentions and had faith in UP Steam when they made their decision. Hindsight is 20/20, isn't it, except that I recall Realist being VERY skeptical of the trade when it was announced. He can't be proven wrong even if he wants to!

It's not just an Ed Dickens' problem anymore. The buck stops with his bosses and all the executive management at Omaha. From UP Steam's official web site:

No other railroad in this country has retained its historical equipment and honored its past like Union Pacific. The preservation of its fleet speaks to the high value Union Pacific places on its heritage and its role in America's history.

Execuses about the bottom line, and that they are busy worrying about the stock price (went up again anyway), and appeasing brainless Wall St. shareholders are unacceptable. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE PAID THE BIG BUCKS. A quick look at the Insider Sales of UP stocks in recent months will show how much extra BIG BUCKS they earned. There are executives here in Silicon Valley who can replace them, and they can wreck a company for far less, if they are willing to whine some more. :-)

Even if UP didn't get 4014 up and running within 7 or 8 years from the time it left Pomona, there's no way UP would spend the money to tow it back to the Pomona to say nothing of starting the "leapfrog" effect with panel track once again. That in itself would be a nightmare and prevent it from ever being moved back to the fair grounds to my way of thinking. 

apollo17 Wrote:
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> Even if UP didn't get 4014 up and running within
> 7 or 8 years from the time it left Pomona, there's
> no way UP would spend the money to tow it back to
> the Pomona to say nothing of
> starting the "leapfrog" effect with panel track
> once again. That in itself would be a nightmare
> and prevent it from ever being moved back to the
> fair grounds to my way of thinking. 

Had it been anybody but dl, that little panel track thing would never have had to happen. He burned bridges with the track people resulting in do-it-yourself.

For anyone else, there would have been a large UP track gang doing that work, probably in a day or less.

Of course, anybody but dl could have gotten a different 4000 that would have been far easier and cheaper to retrieve. More burned bridges and a supercharged libido made 4014 the only choice from the beginning.

Like everything else, it starts with "What's in it for ME"? Then goes to "How can I make everyone forget that old crew and belittle everything they did?"