Steam & Excursion > Someone May Just Be Looking For A New Job After This Mishap!

While operating steam locomotives back in the day had it's perks and definite advantages, it was also fraught with daily peril.  The chance to make a mistake that could cost you your seniority and your job lurked around every corner.  Here we see one of those perils.

The date is May 26, 1941 and the location is the Southern Pacific's Dunsmuir, California roundhouse nestled in the Sacramento River Canyon near Mt. Shasta.  SP 2-10-2 #3667 has somehow been allowed to wander out into the turntable pit where she has unceremoniously come to rest.

She may have had a leaking throttle that allowed steam to slowly enter the cylinders until she got moving on her own and out into the turntable pit.  Perhaps some engineer or hostler simply did not close the throttle all the way.  We do know that her Johnson bar was not centered and her drivers were not choked which could have prevented this from happening.

Needless to say someone is in trouble.  Until #3667 is cleared from the pit, the entire roundhouse is now out of service for delivering or receiving motive power. There is damage to #3667 that will have to be repaired before she can return to service.  This is quite a mess.

More than likely someone is looking for a new job.


Martin



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/16 03:19 by LoggerHogger.

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Surely a bad day at Dunsmuir.

I find several things curious.  Where is the trailing truck?  How did they get the crane into position apparently on one of the house tracks?  Is that plume of steam issueing from behind the engine. or if not why would the engine still hot enough to be blowing the safety valve?  And, how did the engine creep out of the roundhouse with the radius rod in the upper (reverse) position?

-John

I assume the crews have already removed the trailing truck to get read for the pick.  Someone could have muonted the engine and tossed her into reverse in an attempt to stop her which could explain the radius rod.  Or they may just have her ready for the reverse move once they back her out.

This view is looking West from the openings of the roundhouse stalls.

Martin

That may not be the safety that is blowing, but the vent valve. They are probably just lettering her blow down to zero, but not opening the actual blowdowns so as not to fill the pit with hot water, while they are trying to work.

The steam spewing from a pop off valve is on a dome that is not part of this engine.  That dome is sticking up from behind the engine.  It seems that for as long as there have been turntables, locomotives have been finding their way into their pits.  One of the accepted risks.  It wasn't limited to steam either.  We all ahve seen photos of diesels in the same predictament.  I would even bet this happened to at least one electric motor somewhere, sometime!

Rob

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That may not be the safety that is blowing, but
> the vent valve. They are probably just lettering
> her blow down to zero, but not opening the actual
> blowdowns so as not to fill the pit with hot
> water, while they are trying to work.


That makes sense.

What a photo - thanks for post!

It is on that engine look at the angle its blowing at. Also no way for another engine to be that close.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The steam spewing from a pop off valve is on a
> dome that is not part of this engine.  That dome
> is sticking up from behind the engine.  It seems
> that for as long as there have been turntables,
> locomotives have been finding their way into their
> pits.  One of the accepted risks.  It wasn't
> limited to steam either.  We all ahve seen photos
> of diesels in the same predictament.  I would
> even bet this happened to at least one electric
> motor somewhere, sometime!
>
> Rob

Its also a fairly long exposure, which may make the steam look like she is popping. off.  I'm sure trailing truck was dropped to allow work and pulling her out.   No matter what, putting an engine into a pit could make a mess out of the day's schedule for the roundhouse foreman.

-------------------------------------------------------
> It is on that engine look at the angle its blowing
> at. Also no way for another engine to be that
> close.
> --------------------------------------------------

There are plenty of photos that support this conclusion.

The amount of energy it took to get that loco COMPLETLY into the pit indictes to me that she was traveling at a fast speed.
In my experience, a slow moving engine would have been severly impeded when the pilot truck dropped, the engine would have been even more hobbled if drivers 1&2 were dangling, putting the entire weight on the axles remaining on the rails.

Another factor is that the driver brake rigging is interconnected. So that, with a severly drooping front end, the other brake shoes would be jammed against the remaining wheels ---- as more and more drivers fell ( resting on their pedestal binders...).
Even a couple of dropped axles would have drawn the brake shoes against the other tires,

At some point the front of the engine tipped, the rear end was lifted clear of the rails,  yet she got all the way IN!

But to get dropped into the pit, the front digging into the pit's floor,  would have take great energy.
To get the entire engine that far into the pit means that it must ave been REALLY moving.

She was going fast enough, that even with the pilot dug into the pit 'floor', she got the ENTIRE wheelbase off the rails and into the pit.
This was an event that took a fair amount of speed to accomplish, and for the engine to get so 'deep'  into center of the pit.

The fact the engine propelled itself so far into the pit, deep enough to drop the trailer, indicates to me that she surely was FLYING.
The attempt to stop her probably prompted the reverse attempt, ergo,  the 'reverse link anomaly'.

Think of what it would take to replicate this event,  As soon as one or two wheel sets were on the ground, it would take more effort to get them ALL on the ground, let alone get cab-deep into the pit.

She didn't just creep out of a stall, she somehow got away, 
How they eventually got her out is a challenge.
Locomotive cranes were useless at this point.

I speculate that the recovery was a job accomplished with jacks and complete cribbing.  
It was a long process, no matter the method used.

W.
 

How many of you thought when you saw the title of this post it would be about UP's SPECIAL ED?
 

I ruled that possibility out, right away....

Title indicates a single 'mishap'..... Our favorite personality has a whole string of 'mishaps'..... With no career consequences, yet...

W.

W Camp wrote:
This was an event that took a fair amount of speed to accomplish,....

It is frighteningly easy to get an engine with a dome throttle to jackrabbit.  Hostler probably wanted to move the engine only a foot or two (perhaps to get better access behind a drive rod or between the spokes), but lifted water and the engine shot ahead.  Shutting the throttle is useless under this circumstance, since there's then water in the dry pipe and superheater elements - downstream toward the cylinders from the throttle - and continues to turn to steam until it's all used up.

-John

See reverser, pull handle!!

Out

Years ago I saw a photo of another SP engine, a 4-8-2 with the front two drivers hanging over the pit.  Rest of the engine was still on the track.

It was accidnets like this that made railroads change to having the locomotive in the stall and the tender facing the pit. Lot easier to rerail a tender.

TonyJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was accidnets like this that made railroads
> change to having the locomotive in the stall and
> the tender facing the pit. Lot easier to rerail a
> tender.

How do you know that this locomotive came out of a stall?

Leaking or collapsed dry pipe?

Re: tomSTP, above..

Ergo, a slow speed mishap, to the smaller engine..
These were the most common.

In Roundhouses, they were built with LARGE windows at the outer ends of the inspection pit tracks...
Some older engines were known as 'creepers,  when parked for a long time with steam pressure in the boilers, the contracting boilers ( comparative cool-down) tended to have greater shrinkage, lengthwise.


Often times, when the throttle lever was 'pinned'' --in the closed position--- the shrinking boiler would bring the dry pipe elbow ( in the steam dome)  that mounted the throttle valve, proper, a little closer to the cab, thus cracking the steam throttle open, ever so little.

Soon, steam pressure would continue to build in the cylinders,she'd give a couple of soft chugs, climb over the chock-chains, and sail merrily out the roundhouse wall....

The window-wall was non-load bearing, so structurally, the building was not endangered, the windows and short wall-section were readily, and cheaply replaced.

On more modern locos, several devices were used to defeat the tendencies for engines to become creepers.
modesrn locos were fitted with shut-off valves on top of the steam chest, thus directly venting any steam pressure build-up in the valve chambers. These were commonly called 'house valves' ( always opened when in the round 'house).

Pennsy engines used a flat, washer-like 'snifter valve'.  The internal operating element of the snifter valve was a flat, steel disc sliding on a central shaft.  When steam was sent to the cylinders, this valve slammed shut --- allowing steam pressure to build-up in the valve housing and the cylinders.  If, while moving, the throttle was closed suffuicently to shut down the flow of steam, the vacuum created by the flashing Pistons sucked the snifter valves ( inward) wide-open allowing air into the cylinders.

[ If the throttle is closed while sailing down the main, the Pistons still flash back-and-forth.... When the piston valve opens to admit steam, a big vacuum ensues -- because there is no gas flow to relieve the vacuum.  At the end of the power stroke, the valve opens the passage way to the smoke stack and the smoke box....  The large vacuum in the cylinders sucks in all that soot, smoke grit and  sulfurous gases.  The grit premature wears out the rings, there is no beneficial lubrication ( delivered by the I rushing steam) and the engine is gasping with smoke being sucked into the cylinders.  Note: Ask skilled enginemen how they relieve this condition, while on long down-grades and while slowing to male station stops...]

On Pennsy engines, these snifter valves, when in the roundhouse, had to be manually forced open with a tool that slid the valve 'open'  on its internal mounting post...

Another aspect of modern engines was the use of front-end throttles.  These throttles use a camshaft, mounted crosswise in the smokebox.  The camshaft opens several individual throttle valves ( and kept them open, as additional valves were lifted). The throttle assembly was cast integral with the superheater 'header'.  The header arranges the superheater pipes so that the steam is routed through the pipes --- on its way to the closed throttle.

Again, with a closed and pinned throttle lever, shrinkage cauldron posed a problem.   It is common to find a compensating lever, mounted midway Dow the boler ( between the cab and the smokebox.  This compensating lever compensates for the length changes in the warm boiler and the cold ambient temperatures in the outside air.  In the 'house, the throttle stays closed, regardless of the expandsion/contraction cycles, or varying boiler lengths.

So, yes, there were many 'wandering' stories and many engines that became creepers...

W.
 



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/16 11:02 by wcamp1472.