Steam & Excursion > Cancelled SF 3751 Los Angeles to San Diego Oct 1 2016

Just got word that the SF 3751 Los Angeles to San Diego Oct 1 2016 excursion has been cancelled.

This is from the newsletter I received this morning-

***NO MORE STEAM ON ANY BNSF LINES*** At the meeting we were all surprised to learn that BNSFhas just made a major policy change regarding excursiontrains.  "NO STEAM ON BNSF"    This is a major shiftin their operating policies. This puts a real damper on any future operations.  On the San Diego trip we would havetraveled on the San Diego Northern rails but would havehad to turn the engine on  BNSF tracks.

George Cataulin
San Diego, CA
Left Coast Rail Videos



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/16 12:11 by gjc.

gjc Wrote:
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> Just got word that the SF 3751 Los Angeles to San
> Diego Oct 1 2016 excursion has been cancelled.

Being discussed here although the thread title is misleading

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,4035768

This again highlights the problems that can arise when you are dependent on other entities for operation.  The preservation community has been dealing with this issue for almost as long as I can remember.
It behooves restorers to actually have a place to operate before they undertake years of effort and spend cubic dollars only to see wheels rust to the rails.

Or restore something else. Like a B-29.  That took 9 years or so and many hours of work, but the second B-29, 'DOC",  to be restored has its' certificate.   It can go just about anywhere in the national air space.  It doesn't rely on the 'good will' or permission of property owners.  I just returned from a fly in in IL that featured the majority of the Grumman TBM torpedo bombers that are airworthy. The weekend was put together in about 6 weeks, and required nothing more than the OK of the City Council to have some port-a-potties and a food vendor.  Not even a waiver from the FAA.

So, be careful what you spend your money on and have either tracks of your own or an iron clad contract. 

Now, I'll put on my Nomex firesuit !

 

Just fyi the Barstow trip for sept 10th, 2016 has also been cancelled according to 3751 official FB page.
----Daniel 

==================================
Santa Fe 3751 · This evening, many of you have heard the news that both of the planned excursions for this fall have been cancelled. While we are all saddened by this outcome, we would ask you to stay positive and respectful and keep in mind that the railroads are dealing with unprecedented changes on many levels that require considerable focus to manage. We thank them for the many times when we have been able to operate and we thank you for your continued support.


 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/16 10:50 by daniel3197.

Very true, Norm.  No flames from me !

Norm you are exactly right.

The days of big steam excursions is pretty much over. With declining revenues/profits the Class 1s are needing to reduce all risks to zero and with increasing 
liabiliites not from the railfan community but the public they have had to say no to these operations.

The smart railroad museums are the ones with 5-10 miles of track max., which they own and can determine what will run, when. They are also the ones with safe, rules compliant volunteers, less equipment out of the weather in buildings, well maintained track, and just a few locomotives which are all operable. They all have atleast one  connection to a Class 1 or regional/short line and they make sure to keep that relationship "golden".

The days of folks "playing railroad" on a piece of track are gone. Preservation is serious stuff and not for the faint hearted.

exprail

exprail Wrote:

> The smart railroad museums are the ones with 5-10
> miles of track max., which they own and can
> determine what will run, when. They are also the
> ones with safe, rules compliant volunteers, less
> equipment out of the weather in buildings, well
> maintained track, and just a few locomotives which
> are all operable. They all have atleast one
>  connection to a Class 1 or regional/short line
> and they make sure to keep that relationship
> "golden".

​There is no gold here in the Baltimore area.  CSX does NOT want to operate any excursions, Amtrak is now too expensive and museums; ha ha, the B&O R.R. Museum is a farce.
​They have about 1 mile of track and they shove a few ex-Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Cars, now painted to look like B&O, up their line and pull the train back.  The public is fooled into believing that this is a real B&O passenger train, ha ha, and all the real B&O passenger cars and locomotives, including the American Freedom Train ex-Reading 2101 are parked in the front yard collecting rust.  Baltimore is screwed folks, we have no short lines and a poorly operated railroad museum.  Sad but true.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

So if business is down, they have to cancel, but if business is up, will they still cancel? Id like to think they would let 3751 run more when there is less traffic to contend with.

It seems to me that someone stepped on BNSF toes.  Someone got too demanding and BNSF had enough.  Just my guess.

edsaalig Wrote:
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> It seems to me that someone stepped on BNSF toes.
>  Someone got too demanding and BNSF had enough.
>  Just my guess.

I'll state this again: It is NOT BNSF management, but Amtrak that drastically raised their rates for operating ANY excursions under their "Amtrak insurance umbrella"!

Not so Amtrak's insurance rates for the Bartow run were very low.  It seems to be the relationship betwen BNSF and the 3751 group.

Tow it or truck it to the Grand Canyon Ry and run it there.

OK now time for 3751 to do the 1472 day--15 year boiler teardown at Grand Canyon Railway to get that job over and done.
Hopefully 3751 can return in the year 2020 or 2019 if things go smoothly.
---- Daniel

daniel3197 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK now time for 3751 to do the 1472 day--15 year
> boiler teardown at Grand Canyon Railway to get
> that job over and done.
> Hopefully 3751 can return in the year 2020 or 2019
> if things go smoothly.
> ---- Daniel

Return to where?  I can't imagine that they would want to return to the LA area and put up with all the crap from Amtrak, etc., etc., etc..

Return 3751 to running status on the Grand Canyon Railway if no where else.
That seems to be the only even remotely practical plan as things now stand.
I would just LOVE to hear other ideas on what the 3751 group can do at this point.
This BNSF steam ban looks like it would also affect the SP 4449,  ATSF2926 , SPS 700 and MILW 261 future ops.
This is a very very sad turn of events for mainline steam to be sure.
---- Daniel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/16 12:53 by daniel3197.

This is bad news for the 4449 and SP&S 700 too.  Where will they run if BNSF says no?  They can do a little bit on the OP.  Maybe they can make some sort of deal with the Portland and Western.

Wait....what is it?

1) BNSF says it will no longer host steam excursions?

2) Amtrak, who must be involved in these trips for insurance reasons, raised
their rates so high that no one has any hope of operating such trips at break-even or better?

I'm having trouble sorting thru all this.

If 1) is true, then is there a connection to the fact that a high-level BNSF exec who is known 
to be favorable to steam has recently retired ?

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/16 13:06 by The_Chief_Way.

People should not draw conclusions simply because one trip did not go forward.  There are many reasons a trip can be turned down.

BNSF has been a gracious host for steam over the years and nothing has changed in that regard for the future.

Be aware that the executives that allow these trips to go forward are members here and watch this forum.

If BNSF were to actually enact such a "no steam" policy you would read that from them directly.  They would not rely on rumors in the railfan blogs to get the word out.  The announcement from the group proposing the trip in no way cites any "policy change" by BNSF.  Here is the link.

http://goldenstaterails.com/

Martin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/16 13:47 by LoggerHogger.

wingomann Wrote:
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> This is bad news for the 4449 and SP&S 700 too. 
> Where will they run if BNSF says no?

They do have the Oregon Pacific Railroad that hosts them often.

-Dave

Well said Martin. BNSF has been a great friend to steam over the years and I look forward to that continuing
and supporting it.




LoggerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People should not draw conclusions simply because
> one trip did not go forward.  There are many
> reasons a trip can be turned down.
>
> BNSF has been a gracious host for steam over the
> years and nothing has changed in that regard for
> the future.
>
> Be aware that the executives that allow these
> trips to go forward are members here and watch
> this forum.
>
> If BNSF were to actually enact such a "no steam"
> policy you would read that from them directly. 
> They would not rely on rumors in the railfan blogs
> to get the word out.
>
> Martin