Steam & Excursion > When You Don't Fit On The Turntable Here Is How You Move About!

The turntable of a steam roundhouse was a very useful devise for the turning of steam locomotives.  However, they had one significant drawback, namely their length would limit the size of engines that could utilize their function.

This limitation was quickly discovered by the crews of the Sierra Railroad in the spring of 1952 when Weyerhaeuser Timber 2-6-6-2 #4 arrived in Jamestown to be transformed into Sierra #38.  Simply put, she was too long to fit on the existing roundhouse turntable.

In order to get the big logging mallet into the roundhouse crews pulled her onto the turntable and then disconnected her tender and pulled that away with a small Plymouth gas locomotive.  Then the engine portion of #$ was spun on the turntable.  Waiting on the roundhouse lead's under steam were Sierra #28 and #34 on adjacent tracks.  By using cables tied to these two locomotives, #4 was winched slowly into the Jamestown roundhouse for the first time.

In this fine view captured by Glenn Beier we see Sierra master mechanic Bill Tremewan looks on as he presides over the winching operation.  It was Mr. Tremewan who had elected to give steam one last try on the Sierra rather than convert to diesels.  #38 would be steams last stand on the Sierra.

Martin



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/16 03:36 by LoggerHogger.

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Great picture and story, Martin. Was the roundhouse stall too short for the engine and tender? If it was, they would have to service it inside and then take it out, turn it, reattach the tender, and then fire it up. 
That means the only place to actually turn this beauty was at the Cooperstown wye. I wonder if some crew members thought 38 was more hassle than it was worth. 

Tom

Tom,

The engine did not even fit inside the roundhouse stall as we see in this later shot when she was lettered as #38 and being serviced in the roundhouse.  When this type of work was needed the tender was seperated and stored on an adjacent roundhouse track.

Martin

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Martin:

Yes, the #38 was a bad fit for the Sierra in more ways than one. To begin with the Sierra already had adequate motive power to operate their two division schedule with the locos they had on hand: #24, 28, 34 & 36. The #24 or 28 handled the upper division and the #36 or 34 the lower. The #38 was far from new when the Sierra got her and even after repaired she was not popular with the engine crews. She was reported to be difficult to switch with, rough riding and somewhat unreliable. Indeed on her first test run into Sonora she broke down and was parked for a lot of head scratching over by the straight, legged derrick on one side of the old Y. 

The #38 forward from Oakdale to Jamestown and due to the turntable problem you mentioned, she then had to back down from Jamestown to Cooperstown to turn. The McCormick Y, like the Sonora Y, having been torn out decades before.

Operationally, the loco she actually sidelined, was as I recall the #28. In 20-20 hindsight, I am not sure the move to bring in the #38 was a good operational or fiscal move by the Sierra. For railfans who didn't have to run her, however, it was exciting. Certainly better to watch the #38 that a couple of rolling boxes with horns.

John

The wye at Oakdale could also have been used to turn the engine. But without a wye at Sonora or some other distant location, why bother turning it?

Well, one factor may have been the long up hill climb from Cooperstown to Jamestown and water levels in the boiler re: crown sheet. Another factor was the desire of the crews to run with the cab in the normal rear position. The Y at Oakdale was used to turn the #38 before she went back "up the hill" (eastbound) on her next run. The only area she ran with tender first (normally) was from Jamestown to Cooperstown. The only appreicable hill she had to climb going westbound was a relatively short grade up Chinese Hll, just west of Chinese Camp.

John

Where was the McCormick Wye located?  When was the wye at Melones Jct removed?  Was there a wye at Don Pedro Jct?

The McCormick Y was installed during the construction of the original Melones dam. It was at about mile post 30.5 or so. East of Keystone and west of Jacks siding (also used for the Dam project but also used later) at MP 32. If you are heading eastbound on the Sierra's Keystone straightaway (check Google earth or Google Maps) you'll see the track curve to the right and head away from the highway. If you scroll SLOWLY along the Sierra ROW you can just make out the faint outline of the Y. I believe the western most leg is now a gravel road. The Y was on the north side of the mainline.

The Sierra had no Y at the junction with the Don Pedro branch. There were I believe turning facilities on the Hetch Hetchy line at Hetch Hetchy Jct. just east of the Don Pedro Brach, which left the Sierra main on the south side. It too can be followed on Goodle earth/maps using the satellite mode on the latter.

Hope this is of some help.

John

lynnpowell Wrote:
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> Where was the McCormick Wye located?  When was
> the wye at Melones Jct removed?  Was there a wye

> at Don Pedro Jct?

The McCormick Wye and Melones Jct. Wye are one and the same, and are at Milepost 31.3.

It looks like 38 was almost too tall for the roundhouse as well.

I believe they chose bigger steam power was to eliminate the doubling of the 3% grade out of Chinese. But it seems it came with more problems than it solved.

With all the available steam power available in 1952 I wonder why Sierra didn't get a beefy Mikado, Berkshire or even a Santa Fe type? That would have been a sight!

Posted from Android

Actually when the Sierra railroad was looking at #38 they also were looking at one of the Western Pacific baby Mallets.

Martin

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/16 03:25 by LoggerHogger.

38 could fit in the roundhouse, without it's tender.  The pic of her hanging the door is account she is over the drop pit and one of her drivers from the front engine unit has been dropped and is being attended to on the track to the left.

The Sierra experts I have consulted with say the purchase of 38 was to eliminate a daily helper job over Chinese Hill, westbound to Oakdale.  For a very brief time, they did turn 38 in Jimtown on a daily basis, disconnecting the tender each time.  Sanity finally prevailed and she ran tank first from Tuolumne to Cooperstown.  The 24 was the engine that was set aside.

In addition to the WP baby malley, Sierra looked at WP 334 a big 2-8-2 now at Rio Vista.

Engine 24 was not "set aside" until May, 1954.  However engine 28 was set aside in November, 1952, and didn't operate again until January, 1955.

It was routine for the Sierra to ad a helper to use one of the "upper division" locos to help the westbound trains up Chinese Hill. Then once that was done the engine would "cut out" at Quinn Spur and return to Jamestown for other work. Depending upon the schedule, the same helper engine could then work the upper division, so it was not necessarilly a second engine crew. Sierra Rail is correct in that the #24 kept working after the #38 arrived. Prior to the arrival of the #38 the #24 had the second highest tonnage rating of any of the Sierra locos. The #36 had the highest until the 38 arrived.

The most difficult section of the Sierra in limiting tonnage wasn't Chinese Hill, it was between Sonora and Standard. The combination of 3% grades and sharp curves challenged the locos especially in the early operational years of the Sierra when a lot of loads went "up the hill" as well as down to Oakdale. Eventually, the improvements in roads and trucks made that traffic, for the most part, unncessary. Indeed it was not unusual for eastbound trains to have help from Sonora to Standard in the early years. Even in the 1950's as a kid I recall seeing two locos on the eastbounds heading out of Sonora.

John