Steam & Excursion > Running Cotton Belt 819 on The Arkansas & Missouri Railroad

Hey you railfans of Arkansas & members of The Cotton Belt Rail Historical Society & Arkansas Railroad Museum!! I've been keeping track on your slow but steady process to get 819 running again in the near future. But when you get her up & running by then. Where are you guys gonna run her? Luckly, there's a regional railroad nearby that she get run on that is excursion friendly & has run regular tourist trips for 3 decades & that railroad is The Arkansas & Missouri Railroad. Why? It does connect with mainline railroads at diffrerent towns on the system. Like BNSF at Monett, Missouri & UP at Fort Smith, Arkansas. Plus they have a lot of track for her to strech her legs. They have 150 miles of former Frisco trackage & operates on class III standards. They even run regular tourist trains during the summer. If you members & volunteers of The CBRHS & Arkansas Railroad Museum need a generous host railroad for Cotton Belt 819 to run excursion trips, then the Arkansas & Missouri is the railroad that might help you. For more information about the Arkansas & Missouri Railroad, you can visit their company website at http://www.amrailroad.com. Hope this will be helpful to get 819 a host railroad to run on. Plus, the nearest interchange to the A&M is on the UP at Fort Smith, about 200+ miles from Pine Bluff.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/16 08:03 by DLTBerkshire.

So has anyone contacted the A&M to see if they are interested in allowing this to happen?

exprail

How is 819 going to get to the A&M? Union Pacific isn't going to let it on its tracks to get there.

Posted from iPhone

819 is too big for the A&M bridges, etc.  Biggest engines that the Frisco ran over this line were USRA Light 2-8-2s.

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 819 is too big for the A&M bridges, etc.  Biggest
> engines that the Frisco ran over this line were
> USRA Light 2-8-2s.

Then how do the SD-70ACe's make it?  Aren't they heavier?

According to Wikipedia and Google --
a USRA light 2-8-2 weighs 292,000 lbs -- locomotive weight, not including the tender
(tender weight not given by Wikipedia -- because that varied, depending on the RR)
an SD-70ACe weighs 408,000 lbs
the Cotton belt 819 weighs 425,500 lbs -- locomotive weight, not including thet ender.
which weighs 312,000 lbs.
(Just trying to compare like with like.)

And does anyone have current data about current A&M
bridge ratings?  Current data is what matters, not past
data.

Nevertheless, all this discussion is academic, and will remain
so until the folks trying to restore the 819 develop both a good
business plan and a good source of funding.  Remember what
Steve Lee is reported to have said when someone asked him what
the UP's steam locomotives burned -- coal or oil, and he said,
"Money!"  Truer words were never spoken! 
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/16 23:51 by Margaret_SP_fan.

the A&M may have seen some upgrades since Frisco steam days. They move a lot of chicken feed.

I wasn't aware that SD70-ACE dizmals were running on the A&M.  We had given thought to running 1522 there but was too heavy.  Engine is 361,000 lbs and tender 238,000 lbs.  Tender is also a lot of weight on a short wheelbase and gave pause to RRs a time or two.

DLTBerkshire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey you railfans of Arkansas & members of The
> Cotton Belt Rail Historical Society & Arkansas
> Railroad Museum!! I've been keeping track on your
> slow but steady process to get 819 running again
> in the near future.

Can you, or anyone else, elaborate on just what "steady process" actually has been going on with 819?

But when you get her up &
> running by then. Where are you guys gonna run her?
> Luckly, there's a regional railroad nearby that
> she get run on that is excursion friendly & has
> run regular tourist trips for 3 decades & that
> railroad is The Arkansas & Missouri Railroad. Why?
> It does connect with mainline railroads at
> diffrerent towns on the system. Like BNSF at
> Monett, Missouri & UP at Fort Smith, Arkansas.
> Plus they have a lot of track for her to strech
> her legs. They have 150 miles of former Frisco
> trackage & operates on class III standards. They
> even run regular tourist trains during the summer.
> If you members & volunteers of The CBRHS &
> Arkansas Railroad Museum need a generous host
> railroad for Cotton Belt 819 to run excursion
> trips, then the Arkansas & Missouri is the
> railroad that might help you. For more information
> about the Arkansas & Missouri Railroad, you can
> visit their company website
> at http://www.amrailroad.com. Hope this will be
> helpful to get 819 a host railroad to run on.
> Plus, the nearest interchange to the A&M is on the
> UP at Fort Smith, about 200+ miles from Pne Bluff.

Ok listen up. This is ONLY a helpful suggestion for The CBRHS & Arkansas Railroad Museum to find a new host railroad to run SSW 819 when she returns to service soon. Right now, they are still trying to raise funds to do a ultrasound test on her boiler under a overhaul known as Project 819. The reason I picked The Arkansas & Missouri Railroad because it's one of the only railroads in Arkansas that's not Union Pacific trackage, plus she a very light 4-8-4 for some of you who are worried about bridge conditions on The A&M.

DLTBerkshire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok listen up. This is ONLY a helpful suggestion
> for The CBRHS & Arkansas Railroad Museum to find a
> new host railroad to run SSW 819 when she returns
> to service soon.

OK, again, when you state "....when she returns to service soon." that leads me/us to believe that you know something about the supposed work being done on 819. Now, maybe your interpretation of "soon" is different from mine, but I think LOTS of folks would REALLY like to learn just what is happening there in Pine Bluff, AR!

Right now, they are still trying
> to raise funds to do a ultrasound test on her
> boiler under a overhaul known as Project 819. The
> reason I picked The Arkansas & Missouri Railroad
> because it's one of the only railroads in Arkansas
> that's not Union Pacific trackage, plus she a very
> light 4-8-4 for some of you who are worried about
> bridge conditions on The A&M.

DLTBerkshire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok listen up. This is ONLY a helpful suggestion
> for The CBRHS & Arkansas Railroad Museum to find a
> new host railroad to run SSW 819 when she returns
> to service soon. Right now, they are still trying
> to raise funds to do a ultrasound test on her
> boiler under a overhaul known as Project 819. The
> reason I picked The Arkansas & Missouri Railroad
> because it's one of the only railroads in Arkansas
> that's not Union Pacific trackage, plus she a very
> light 4-8-4 for some of you who are worried about
> bridge conditions on The A&M.

But once again 819 has to use UP to get to the A&M so it's probably not happening

Well, there is a way to get to A&M trackage. BNSF has trackage rights over UP trackage from Pine Bluff to Jonesboro, Arkansas. It can travel on it as a ferry move & then switch on to BNSF trackage traveling northeast towards Springfield & then head southwest towards The A&M interchange at Monett, Missouri. It maybe risky but I think it might work.

I would have the thought the UP would allow ferry moves but not excursions. I mean the UP has let SP 4449 (in Portland), SP&S 700 (in Portland), SP 2467 (in 2001), and Frisco 1522 use there rails to get to places in the past. (Plus the SP 2472 will have to use UP rails if it is going to its new home in Santa Cruz.)

DLTBerkshire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, there is a way to get to A&M trackage. BNSF
> has trackage rights over UP trackage from Pine
> Bluff to Jonesboro, Arkansas. It can travel on it
> as a ferry move & then switch on to BNSF trackage
> traveling northeast towards Springfield & then
> head southwest towards The A&M interchange at
> Monett, Missouri. It maybe risky but I think it
> might work.

Yet, you don't seem to want to answer any questions about the "work being done on 819"???????

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DLTBerkshire Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, there is a way to get to A&M trackage.
> BNSF
> > has trackage rights over UP trackage from Pine
> > Bluff to Jonesboro, Arkansas. It can travel on
> it
> > as a ferry move & then switch on to BNSF
> trackage
> > traveling northeast towards Springfield & then
> > head southwest towards The A&M interchange at
> > Monett, Missouri. It maybe risky but I think it
> > might work.
>
> Yet, you don't seem to want to answer any
> questions about the "work being done on
> 819"???????

From what I can tell looking at the Project 819 page on Faceplant (as you love to call it :-) ) nothing is being done on 819. The efforts seem to be concentrated on trying to rehab a shortline for excursions called the Paperton Junction Southern in Pine Bluff

Back when 1522 was down for overhaul after the derailment, we considered approaching the 819 group to lease or whatever, return it to service and use it for a couple of years.  We were told not to waste our time.
That's when we went after Frisco 4500 and after being stonewalled by the city gave up on it.
Too bad.

Let's keep a list of chestnuts that keep popping up here on TO and other sites:

"No non-UP steam allowed on UP"
"Excursion operators should share an insurance policy"
"why can't engine (fill in the blank) pull Amtrak trips"

Seems like the 819 gets pulled into all these threads from time to time.  Should we have a FAQ on this site to address these topics?
And, I note that several times over the past few years people have popped up claiming to represent the 819 group on TO and other sites.  I haven't heard of anything official regarding the 819 in many years.

Chris

I AM officially representing 819, the Arkansas Railroad Museum, and the Cotton Belt Rail Historical society.

Currently, progress on 819 is on hold, plain and simple.  Some efforts to re-start that were tried a couple years ago, but they fell flat for now.  Plan now is simple, backup, regroup, and come back to it when things are better.

I have no idea who DLTBerkshire "Daniel Temple"  is, he is no one that is involved in any way with management and/or operations of the museum, 819, or the CBRHS.  While the input is appreciated, we are in no way ready to even begin talking to host RR's.  We do share a good relationship with the A&M, but it's more about the diesels for the time being.

For those who think the UP has us locked in the building, don't worry your pretty little heads over it.  

We are working on a 'shortline' (tourist line) now known as the Paperton Junction Southern.  It technically was never a shortline but was part of the Cotton Belt.

Robert Longhofer
Board Member, CBRHS, ARM



 

OK folks,,,,,,nothing more to see here, so lets just move along. The 819 ain't going anywhere, NOT even soon!