Steam & Excursion > Finest 4-8-4

Question for all readers: in your opinion, what was the finest Northern type (4-8-4) in North America? By "finest", I don't mean just the biggest, or heaviest, or most horsepower, or best looking. Finest would probably mean what 4-8-4 did the best job (reliability, economical, importance) for its owner? Thank you in advance for all opinions and comments!

Posted from iPhone

That is a loaded question? My favorite Norfolk and Western 611 !  
 

I nominate four:

1) FEF-3 class for the Union Pacific.
2) J Class for the Norfolk and Western.
3 GS4/GS5 Class for Southern Pacific.
4 Any of the Rock Island 4-8-4s for their company.

This could easily start leaning more toward "favorite" 4-8-4's, rather than finest, but you would probably have to throw the AT&SF 2900's in among the "Finest". The heaviest ever built, they were powerful, high speed, long distance runners for sure, and a personal favorite. (And while were on the subject, get out your checkbook, and make a donation to the nearly complete SANTA FE 2926 restoration project in Albquerque).,

Wolfman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is a loaded question? My favorite Norfolk and
> Western 611 !  

Please reread the original poster's requirements for "Finest 4-8-4", i.e. NOT your "favorite"! 

The service records of New York Central's Niagaras lead me to nominate the Niagara as the finest.  I love 4-8-4s and have ridden behind almost all of those operating today, the 261, 700, 844, 3751, and 4449.  I have chased the 611 and seen the 614.  Managed to find almost all ATSF 2900s on display at their various locations.  I still stick with the Niagara.  Unfortunately none remain to substantiate my claim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/17 14:43 by nycman.

---

I concur with Jack, "Hotwater".

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

nycman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The service records of New York Central's Niagaras
> lead me to nominate the Niagara as the finest.  I
> love 4-8-4s and have ridden behind almost all of
> those operating today, the 261, 700, 844, 3751,
> and 4449.  I have chased the 611 and seen the
> 614.  Managed to find almost all ATSF 2900s on
> display at their various locations.  I still
> stick with the Niagara.  Unfortunately none
> remain to substantiate my claim.

I agree that the NYC Niagara was truly a superb locomotive. However, lets PLEASE go back and see what the Original Poster stated, i.e. "Those locomotives that did the BEST job for their company.". In my opinion, the NYC never really realized the best potential of their Niagars, over their life span.

I know that they were introduced late and did not serve as long as most of the others.  I am sticking with my original claim.  For the time that the operated, they did a superb job.

I don't believe there were any 4-8-4's that would not meet your standard of 'finest'.

-LD

How about the Northern Pacific A-1 to A-5 class Northerns?  One of the NP 4-8-4s, 2626, was originally the "Four Aces" 1111 which Timken used to promote its roller bearings.

I would have to go with the ATSF 2900s. Reputation is EVERYTHING.

It's hard to be impartial on this question. We've all got favorites, including myself. I'll take a stab at the Original Poster's question. Here are my nominees, in no particular order:

Canadian National & Rock Island

I'd find it hard to believe that these two roads would have carried the largest rosters of 4-8-4s in North America if their owners didn't feel like they absolutely hit the mark in terms of reliability, economical and importance. 

Milwaukee Road S2

I'm biased on this one, but even if I look at it impartially, I'd put these on the list. Unlike a lot of roads that had various different classes of 4-8-4s, which may have added up to a good sized roster, this was one singular class of 40. The road liked them enough in 1937-1938, that they re-ordered 10 more copies for 1940 delivery. They displaced a huge amount of smaller power to secondary lines and sent old power to the scrapper. In addition, they had 15+ years of service during which to provide an ROI. Last arguement I'll make for the S2 was that enough other railroads were impressed that they used it as a template to design other BLW-built Northerns.

I don't have a 4th, but I think a lot of others fall into the Honorable Mention category and could be a 4th. I think the UP's FEF-2 and ATSF's 3776 classes, as well as the NP A-4 should all get a few votes. Unlike their later sisters, these were big classes of modern, dual-service locomotives that had 15 years or so to provide an ROI, instead of +/- 10 years for those built at the tail end of the war. They also had the benefit of being built without wartime restrictions on metals, etc. 

That's my $0.02.

Mike

This won't be popular, but here goes...Great Northern S-1 class. Lead engine of the class, 2550 (there were 6) was built by Baldwin in early 1929 to haul GN's name passenger trains,was displaced somewhat the next year by the 80" drivered S-2's, were tested on and then worked hauling mostly freight, but also passenger trains across the toughest mountain division on the railroad with the speed and efficiency GN insisted on till being Retired in Dec. 1957. Steadily modified in the GN shops over nearly 30 year careers, sportin' big Vanderbilt tenders, compressors on the smokebox front, Glacier Park paint schemes....Most Fine.

Cheers, Dave

Hillcrest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This won't be popular, but here goes...Great
> Northern S-1 class.

Why wouldn't it be popular? 

I've got a builders plate from a scrapped GN S-1 and GN S-2 hanging on my wall. Great locomotives and no arguement here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/17 16:26 by s3northern.

I think S3NORTHERN is correct. NO ONE outside Russia owned more 4-8-4s than Rock Island. And Rock Island was not as big a railroad as Santa Fe, SP, etc. They were used on manifest freights, perishables, and, frequently, passenger, though they wer purchased primarily for fast freight service. And in that, they excelled. 

In the interest of fairness, I'll note that Rock Island is my favorite road, as you can tell from my handle.

Brian Ehni

twin_star_rocket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think S3NORTHERN is correct. NO ONE outside
> Russia owned more 4-8-4s than Rock Island.

Canadian National owned more Northerns than Rock Island.

Choose the one with the longest, regularly timetable scheduled, longest distances travelled, ----- without an engine change, but simply adding "fresh crews."  Which RR and what was the longest distance, ----- from what city, to what city?

That answer will give you the true solution as to which RR got the best use, greatest speeds and longest distances out of their fine locos.  The 'walking-away" winner as to the FINEST.....

Had the 4449 not been available, or maybe, NOT mechanically restorable, one of these locos would have been the one I would have advocated for powering the AFT..... ( across the wide open spaces of the American West... equipped with a suitable auxiliary tender....)

W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/17 20:09 by wcamp1472.

I'm going to make an odd nomination, strictly observing "finest" as opposed to "favorite", that being the Western Maryland 1400's.  They were everything that the 1300 4-6-6-4's apparently were not.  They were strictly freight locomotives and spent their all-too--short lives in relative obscurity, but from what I have read over the years they reportedly performed beautifully and were universally liked by their crews. 

That said, it is hard to deny the accomplishments of the ATSF 2900's.

Gordon



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/17 16:39 by gbmott.

---