Steam & Excursion > Big Boys

Sorry if this topic has been visited but I have been trying to find out info concerning UP 4023.

-The rumor is that is was overhauled and kept in running condition with 3985 until the mid 70s when it was donated to the city of Omaha. Any truth to this? If that is the case, would this one be the best canidate for complete restoration? Now, with the 4023 needing a home, what is going to happen? Surely someone out there has the financial backing to swing this project into high gear! Maybe a new toy for the UP Steam program?

blackbirdxx....uh oh, you\'ve done it now, opened a 1.21 million pound can of worms. She is just too much engine for nearly all rail lines. I would however, like to also hear some answers to your questions.
OKtrainboys

How many worms in 1.21-million pounds...? *S*

In a 4\'8-1/2" nutshell, the Big Boy is simply too much locomotive to operate on today\'s rails. The weight of the locomotive, the \'closer\' gauge of rails on curves, and where one could turn the monster for a return trip are only some of the reasons it would be impractical to make a Big Boy operational.

The Union Pacific\'s Steve Lee, in "Last of the Giants" (Volume 3?) gives excellent reasoning that supports the non-return of this 4-8+8-4 <g> to operation.

Would I like to see this big Alco in action? You bet - but until I pick the winning Powerball numbers I\'ll be content to visit the 4004 in Cheyenne and the 4005 at the Forney Museum in Denver.

Here\'s a link (clickable? I doubt it!) to more info on making a Big Boy operational:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bigboy/

Jim

Great Post Jim...Are you planning to attend/ride the Denver post 3985/ or rmrr club excursion?? Is the rodeo in Cheyenne worth attending? Is it just Sat. or Sat./Sun.? My son is trains, trains, trains, and my daughter is horses, horses, horses. Seems I get both done in Cheyenne this next w/e.
Oktrainboys

So exactly how much more trouble is the Big Boy than a Challenger? Certainly it is more...but it couldn\'t be so much more that it would be impractical. People spend millions all the time restoring cars, aircraft, and other high-priced items that are no where near as rare or historic as a Big Boy.

Yes, maybe now it would be hard to convince UP to allow a Big Boy on its tracks...but it is always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission... I think they would have a very hard time saying no to an actual restored Big Boy that needs nothing else but a place to run. Would UP have said yes to a Challenger in the early 70s? (BTW, sidenote..does UP still own the 4023?)

Just my 2 cents.. I think there is a way. I\'m calling Bill Gates.

Big Boy 4023 was given class 3 repairs at Cheyenne in 1957. It was retired in 1959 and stored at Cheyenne until 1974 when it was towed dead to Omaha. From 1974 till 1988 the engine was on display at the UP Omaha shops.
The locomotive, including DD40x # 6900 was given to the city of Omaha by the railroad in 1989 for display at a local park. Both locomotives were moved to Omaha Union Station in May of 2001, after the park was removed for Omaha\'s new convention center.
The 4023 & 6900 are now parked outside of Union Station. The 4023 is in very good condition.

Here is the URL, clickable:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bigboy/

BTW, I, too, would just LOVE to see a Big Boy run again, but the UP does not need any more steam locomotives in their historic steam locomotive fleet. They have their hands full with the two they already have. Do please call Bill Gates! <g>

Get Bill gates on the horn!....AND get 4023 back inside....She is no doubt the last, best destiny for the Big Boy legacy...BTW, saw her last month and she does look good. I understand she is in TEMPORARY storage outside the old union station where do we go from here....Come on Omaha locals...let\'s hear from you.
Oktrainboys

The 4023 is not owned by the UP. None of the 8 remaining 4000\'s are owned by the UP. That really seals the deal right there. The 4023 would need complete rebuilding. Overhauled in \'57 doesn\'t mean too much, sorry. The tender\'s rigid truck frame would probably need to be overhauled too. Plus she\'d have to be converted to oil. Cinders start fires, coal burning is out. I\'d really love to see a 4000 run. Seeing the 3985 last month up here was incredible. But seriously folks, it ain\'t gonna happen. (Unless I win the lottery and buy my own shortline. Then rebuild alot of track...)

Someone please tell me where the Big Boys ran on the UP. Was it not just over Sherman Hill? These engines were "point designed" for a specific task. Not many places would tolerate them today. Wyes and turntables, water towers and coal towers come to mind.

When the 4000\'s were new they ran betwween Ogden UT and Green River WY in 44 they ran between Cheyenne and Ogden. Cheyenne WY wasthere main shop.
Ryan Ballard

They also ran to Denver from what I\'ve heard, and read. If the UP really, really wanted to, they could run a 4000. But why? The 844 and 3985 do their jobs very well. Restoring a 4000 would be a big deal, and carry a hefty price. For what? They already have the world\'s largest operating steam locomotive. Why more? I\'d sure love to work on a 4000, and see it run though. Well, I\'ve rambled on enough tonight. Sweet dreams of a 4000 rolling along a mainline.

In 1950 the big fellas briefly ran as far east as North Platte during a coal strike. Be prepared to spend millions for a restoration and truckloads more for liability insurance to run very limited areas. With class acts like Frisco 1522 being forced to drop their ashes because of finances, it hardly seems likely. If you\'ve got money to burn, throw it at existing programs that are struggling.

In answer to your questions and dreams here, The 4023 was indeed placed in front of the Omaha shops andexternally looks pretty pristene witha good coat of paint bu in reality, the inside will be is serious need of assitance. The shop in all their good intentions ran a steam line out to 4023 so it would steam in the winter months which looked nice but placed a serious corrosion problem on the list to be tended to. When we moved it from Kenefick Park to Union Station it sounded like it was missing its piston rings regardless of all the oil we dumped in the cylinders so I would imagine that cylinder liners would have to me made.

There is a mighty list of more to be done on it before operating.

Then there are operational problems as those mentioned. Cinders start right of way fires and forest fires. Coaling the engine is going to be a very expensive proposition too. Operating engineers on overtime cost bucks.

Turning the locos is rapidly becoming a chore also. Yes the 4000\'s were not that much larger than a Challenger (11\') but the extra drivers lengthened the wheelbase enough to raise all sorts of cain.

Denver did see an occasional 4000 as did North Platte. North Platte turned them by blocking up the rear two tender wheels to fit the wheelbase on their turntable.

Turntables are gone let alone the wyes that could be used too. The 844 and a 4000 could not turn at Laramie now due to changes years ago on their wye track.

I would rather see something done with the remaining 4000\'s as Forney is doing by moving their 4005 indoors and setting up an interactive display with it.

\'nuff said

BTW - Isn\'t 844 precluded from turning on the UP wye here in Denver as was described for the Laramie wye (hence, precluding Frontier Days runs for 844)? Or can 844 wye elsewhere in the Denver area (maybe down around 23rd Street, using BNSF and UP tracks like Amtrak)?

Bob, please correct me if I\'m wrong, but I am nearly certain that when 844 is used on the Frontier Days trains, it wyes at 36th Street yard where the KP line goes east. I\'m reasonably certain that this wye has relatively easy curvature.

Jim Burrill

If I remember correctly the little #3985 history book that I bought on a fantrip a few years back,
#3985\'s restoration was a volunteer project started by employees on their own time and later officially sanctioned by the railroad and given funding and resources for completion. I doubt otherwise that 3985 would have been restored- UP would have been happy with just one operational steamer. We\'re lucky to have an operational Challenger, let alone a Big Boy. It should also be noted that one Big Boy (I believe it was #4005 was fitted with an oil burner as an experiment but was not successful and was converted back to coal.

Until Bob steps in ... I heard that the wye at 36th (the area I call Pullman Yard FWIW) was rebuilt about 4-5 years ago to smaller radii, thus precluding 844 from that facility. The rebuild was to allow for some changes in the pig yard ladders at Pullman, IIR.

For the information of everyone here, Bob Krieger and Lynn Nystrom were in that group of employees who brought 3985 back from the display area west of the Cheyenne depot to restoration. Bob can tell the rest of the story.