Steam & Excursion > Cumbres and Toltec Shop news

The crew in Antonito has the 484 tender taken apart and in progress. May start on the trucks next week.

Just about everything is off of the 487, and work is commencing on new parts.

487 superheater tubes are all tested. 5 or 6 will need some repairs.
A few tubes on 487 will need work.
The swedger is gone with the RGRPC, so that will have to be dealt with.

Ed is turning passenger car wheels.

They are working on the wheel lathe to get it ready for turning wheels.
It needed some heavy-duty TLC and KROIL.
Also putting together some new tools for that work.
488 will be moved back outside on Monday to make room to work on the wheel lathe.

A BIG ($13,000-plus) tool order is being shipped in, to replace some tools that left with the RGRPC.

Mark has gone to Wichita for Christmas.

The Narrow Gauge Dead Goat saloon has been conducting a fund drive to provide a Christmas bonus for the Chama and Antonito shop crews.

The bonus fund now stands at over $1,300.00 and counting.
If you have not yet participated, there is still plenty of time!

Chama Shop Crew
c/o Traincams
PO Box 291
Chama, NM 87520
Or use your credit card!
Call Trackside Emporium at 1-800-756-1848

Many, MANY thanks to all who have helped with this!

What locomotives will be ready for the 2003 season? (think positive)

The best bet right now is: 484, 487, and (A bit of a long-shot but WE ALL HOPE) 488.
Check The Dead Goat Saloon http://www.goatbbs.com for up-to-the-minute news.

Jay

What is the RGRPC?

RGRPC is the "Rio Grande Railway Preservation Corporation", the most recent C&TS operator.

If you\'re really curious...
...until it\'s updated, http://www.cumbrestoltec.org/aboutcts.htm details the (former) RGRPC/C&TS relationship.
...http://www.traincams.net/images/PRESIDENT.html indicates why some shop tools "left with the RGRPC".
...http://www.goatbbs.com keeps up with the latest developements.

RGRPC is the non-profit \'operating subsidiary\' of the Friends of the Cumbres and Toltec.
It was created in spring of 2000, wnen the Friends took over operation of the railroad.

After three financially poor seasons, and two federally-mandated shutdowns (FRA and USFS) Last summer, the RGRPC decided they could no longer continue operating the railroad. On Octber 31, they left the property, taking with them everything they had purchased and (In the opinion of some folks) a number of items that actually belong to the railroad.

How\'s my beloved 489 doing???Was going to try and make a run up there in the coming year

I\'m not trying to be a smart aleck, but if they are "friends" of the C&TS, why would they take anything with them? If they are neccesary to the maintenance of the railroad, why wouldn\'t they leave them there to ensure that whomever operates the road after them would have the proper tools to do the job. Isn\'t the bottom line of a "friend" to make sure the line is well taken care of? I know if I had been charged with the operation and had to pruchase some things while I was there, I would leave the stuff and consider it to be my donation to keeping it alive. But that\'s just me.

someone is paying the shop help and buying part - right? Who is it?

The Commission that runs the C&TS RR is running the shop money-wise. The money could run out in Feb. 03
The outlook for a deep pockets operator looks dimmer each day.
The Commission may be next years operator since they are charged by the states of New Mexico and Colorado to oversee the general operation and the
operator (actually a contractor) is responsible for day to day affairs.
The future looks to at least be interesting and hopefully next year will be much better.
There is a lot of bridges to cross before opening day.
All positive support will be appreciated by all concerned.

489 is out of action until PROBABLY next winter, when we hope she can get into the shop for the complete FRA work.

Jay

It\'s a complex situation that defies easy answers, but I\'ll try. A number of folks put up a LOT of money, and guaranteed loans in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. There are some HUGE loans to paid off. Since (it appears to me) that the RGRPC has some creditors who want their money, and possibly faces bankruptcy, they cannot give away their assets even should they wish to do so.
For what it\'s worth (not much, I guess) there also APPEARS to be a certain \'dog in the manger\' stance on the part of the RGRPC. They have the tools, they have their hands involved in a big grant which they SAY will not be granted unless they operate the railroad. SO- "Let us back in and we\'ll take care of things. DON\'T let us in and you don\'t get the tools or the money."

The Commision has just ordered a BUNCH of tools, and gone after more money. They SEEM to be saying" "Take your money and your tools. We\'ll get along without them."

The C&TS Commission (A by-state Commission appointed by the governors of CO and NM), is running the shop and the track work. I expect them to be running the entire railroad next season.
While the current shop money will run out in February, and the \'expected\' EDA grant may not come through in time or at all, the NM legislature has said that they will make certain that more money is available.

For up-to-the-minute news, go to the Narrow gauge dead Goat Saloon www.goatbbs.com

Thanks jaybawb. That answers my question. Hope all can be resolved. It is truly one of the most precious vintage railroads in this country, and a yearly destination on my vacation.

For fairness to all and a balanced look to the problems of the C&TS I suggest you also examine the Friends of the C&TS site www.cumbrestoltec.org/ You will find that the Friends has guaranteed loans to the railroad and put a LOT OF THEIR MONEY into the road and continue to do so. Not only that, they are trying to establish a permanant fund for it. They do have the C&TS best interest at heart.

As I said: It\'s a complex situation that does not lend itself to simple answers. One cannot begin to grasp the whole of the thing by reading a few paragraphs.
The RGRPC is OWNED by The Friends; lock stock and barrel. They have a vested interest in keeping the RGRPC as operator.

The Friends news site tells you what THEY want you to believe. I\'m not accusing them of lying, but I\'ll not accuse them of telling the whole, unvarnished truth, either.
As a loyal and contributing member of The Friends, I have put a LOT (for me) of my time and my money into this venture, without any notion that I would get any of it back. So have hundreds of other people.

While it is true that The Friends are making great strides in raising money, it is also true (IMHO) that they tried holding that money as a club over the Commission.

I\'m confused (as usual) but have not the "friends" collected a lot of money from a lot of folks that expect that money to go towards the operation of the C&TS? What\'s the opinion out there regarding the "I\'m taking your money but I ain\'t contributing to the operation" situation. Please be constructive in your replies!

The Friends have raised and spent over $1 million in private funding on the C&TS over the past three years. With the private donations and the state and Federal money they lobbied to get, they have made substantial progress in fixing the railroad. Sure mistakes were made, but that is part of any managment process. Among other things they under-estimated the effort required to bring the locos up to the new Federal standards. But the fund raising started last Winter would have largely fixed that problem.

But the Forest Service closure of the railroad for over a month this summer turned a challenge into a crisis. The closure cost the railroad over $1.5 million in revenue, and it quickly became clear that the railroad was going to need substantial government help to survive. It was more than the Friends could do alone.

Since many sources of government funding require local matching funds, the Friends decided that it would be prudent to set aside funds to help ensure that such match funding was available. Also, since the Friends had less than $200,000 in cash available, it also made sense to hope that this approach would leverage that amount into something more meaningful.

Currently there is an application to the EDA for a $3 plus million grant for locomotive work, which will require $600,000 plus in matching funds from the states and the Friends over a three year period.

The decision to keep funds in reserve was a judgement call. But the fact is the $200,000 was a drop in the bucket compared to the overall finacial needs of the C&TS. Spending it would not have solved much. The cost just to finish the 488 was over $100,000. It would have kept the shop going for less than three months. And then there would have been nothing.

The Friends and RGRPC have busted their buts to save the railroad and continue to do so.

John West

In some states, money raised for a charity (hospital, church, etc) may only be spent on that purpose. The sponsors of the charity have a legal obligation, and can be subject to civil and criminal penalties if they violate the law.

I\'m a donor to the Friends, and I bet they purchased the tools with charitable money and loans, which is fine. But, they can\'t sign them over to a non-charity in most states. If Kyle, or Union Pacific (!) decided to run the C&TS they couldn\'t use money orignally donated to a charity to do it. The tools may be collateral for some of the loans, so they can\'t just give them away.

It seems to me the Friends are making a valiant effort with volunteer labor, a few employees, donations and government help to keep this treasure running. I hope everybody can pull together to create another 100 seasons of adventure!

As I keep saying (Like a broken record), nothing about this situation is simple, and nothing can be answered in simple straightforward sentences, We need to be VERY careful with facts, and even MORE careful with inferencences and assumptions.

The FRIENDS did not purchase ANY of this stuff thatv is in question. The RGRPC MAY have purchased it, and The FRIENDS MAY have given them the money to do so. But the ownership is clear. The stuff BELONGS to the RGRPC, a private, non-profit corporation (NOT a \'charity\').

Now, when you say: "The tools may be collateral for some of the loans, so they can\'t just give them away." you hit the nail on the head!

Of course, what is at issue right now, is: DID the RGRPC take ONLY what was theirs, or did they take some things that really belong to the railroad?

Before this debacle is over, I think that everyone needs to realise that The Friends are NOT the only people who have the \'best interest\' of the railroad at heart. That mindset is what got us to where we are right now.
In words of one syllable, The Friends inherited a faltering railroad and made it into a disaster; we did NOT \'save the railroad\', and we are NOT going to save it in the future. The governors and state legislatures will see to that
IMHO The Powers that be are not going to give us the chance to mess it up again.
I say "US" and "we" because I AM a loyal member of The Friends, but one who looks with jaundiced eye upon some of the shenanigans of the past three seasons.
FWIW, I live in Chama, and I have seen it first-hand.

Jay