Steam & Excursion > Another Espee engine bites the dust

4307 was one of the great fleet of 4-8-2s.

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Of all the SP steam locomotives that were preserved, there was not one of the 4300 series. These 4-8-2s were probably the most often seen engines powering trains during the last years of steam on the SP. The engineers I spoke with, who had steam experience on the SP, all stated that the 4300s were their favorite to operate.

I was going to ask if any were preserved, and you have already answered my question. Who built the SP 4-8-2's? That builders plate is shaped like Alco, but I don't recall Alco building any for SP. Ironically, the ONLY New York Central mainline engines preserved were two 4-8-2's.

Yes, according to Robert Church's book, The 4300 4-8-2s, Alco did build the first ten, up to no. 4309, in 1923. They also built more in 1924 up to no. 4327, plus some for the EP & SW. After that, starting in 1925 the SP built them at their Sacramento shops.

There was a wild rumor running around when I was with SP, that a single 4300, an MT4 or 5 had been set aside in Portland, but SP executives, on an inspection tour in the late 50's, found it and ordered it cut up immediately.
Don't know if it is true or not, but it is one of those interesting stories only railroaders can come up with.
On another note, an old head I worked with related a story about getting called as a fireman on a 4300 bringing the City of San Francisco into Oakland with dead diesels.
He told of the old hogger who simply told him to keep the thing hot and he'd do the rest. The engineer got a roll under the train and stuck his head out the window, never brought it back in and barely looked up as he watched the road ahead, counted telephone poles and listened to the engine work. Bottom line was, the fireman wondered how they would keep time without a speedometer (these installations were spotty in those days, and most had the symptom of a needle which bounced all over creation) and watched as that old man took the City into Oakland 6 seconds late.
I worked the Starlight north and south out of Oakland with the Engineer who, in the story was the City's fireman. Those guys had a lot of great tales to tell.

I have heard that the last 4300 was used as a stationary boiler at Eugene, OR until 1962. However, I have never seen a photo to confirm this. As to the lack of preservation, it's the same old story- nobody bothered to ask, most fans were just a bunch of picture-taking excursion riders rather than being preservation oriented or nobody thought that "hey, we could write a check for the scrap value and save one". In 1962, west coast foamers were too busy chasing down & photographing the last of the logging steamers to get their fix. Where were the fans or SP buffs when SP decided early on to save an important loco for 'a future nuseum'? I have heard that a GS-5 and AC-12 were suggested to Russell, and he chose the AC-12. That's nice, but why not avoid the mental anguish of choosing and just keep both????

Fortunately, DJR probably had a brain fart and saved the AC-12. It truly was worthy of saving, and should have been saved as an example of technology - yet given his personality, I am surprised that he didn't just hold out an S-10 switcher and send the AC-12 to the scrapper.

A GS-5 would have been significant in a way because only the GS-5 & GS-5a had roller bearings on the SP (and there was only one in each class) but a choice between a 4-8-4 and a 4-8-8-2? That should have been a no-brainer.



NRE973 Wrote:
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> I have heard that the last 4300 was used as a
> stationary boiler at Eugene, OR until 1962.
> However, I have never seen a photo to confirm
> this. As to the lack of preservation, it's the
> same old story- nobody bothered to ask, most fans
> were just a bunch of picture-taking excursion
> riders rather than being preservation oriented or
> nobody thought that "hey, we could write a check
> for the scrap value and save one". In 1962, west
> coast foamers were too busy chasing down &
> photographing the last of the logging steamers to
> get their fix. Where were the fans or SP buffs
> when SP decided early on to save an important loco
> for 'a future nuseum'? I have heard that a GS-5
> and AC-12 were suggested to Russell, and he chose
> the AC-12. That's nice, but why not avoid the
> mental anguish of choosing and just keep both????

I've heard the story too of the MT in Oregon. Darned shame too, the SP 430's top my list of Steam that I wish had been saved. Something about that Streamlining up on top, the 70" drivers and the low-slung headlight just made those engines look super.

The were great in service too whether at the head of a crack varnish run or wheeling a block of reefers. I have read that they could start trains that the GS's couldn't budge and that the hoggers swore by them.

Wish that they had kept one. As for which to save between the GS-5 and and the AC, I agree that it was a no-brainer if you had to keep only one. The Cab Ahead was the way to go.

Brian E

S.P.4367 was offered to the city of Eugene,Oregon and when the offer was refused The Friendly cut it up.My dad, an S.P.engineman, remembers seeing 4367 leaving town in a gondola.

Photos please!!! What year did the engine get cut? How much was left of it after boiler service?

When my uncle, Clarence Noble, was in his last hours in the hospital I did a turn doing watch so that he would not be alone when the inevitable came. Clarence was a locomotive engineer for the S.P for some 46 years when he retired in 1975.

Even though he was in and out of reality, I asked him what steam engine he thought was the best he ever had the pleasure to run. Much to my surprise he became very lucent and gave me a quick, but thorough, tutorial in the difference between a General Service and a Mountain type locomotive. The Mountain won hands down!.

Just goes to show you, even at the end of his life my uncle Clarence was a 4300 fan!

Here is 4354 lookin good in San Francisco, 1955, probably waiting for cummute time.

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